Would you rather work on a team or alone?
Personally, i prefer to work alone
I can get everything done as i need it, i don't need to wait for people to come up with resources if they're the graphics designer, map designer, etc. I don't need to meet anybody or do reports on what i have done, I have everything with me, i can get the game(s) to MY specifications, nobody's telling me what to do, "Lone Wolf" designers usually have more pride in their work, especially if it's a very popular game like Icon Traders and Castle. I've tried working with somebody as a team before, but the person was never online when i needed him, and when he was, he still didn't have the work done.
ID:153192
 Oct 18 2004, 5:41 am
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Oct 18 2004, 5:52 am
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Artekia
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I like teamwork cause I can never think of anything good to make.
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If you can't think of anything to make, why are you on "BYOND"? Or, specifically, the "Dream" bit?
Dantom specifically wants imagination, creativity. But anyway: Alone. Alone alone alone! This "co-owner" rubbish is silly. (Again, look at "Y" and "O", in BYOND) Do things alone. I'm far to unreliable and lazy to work with "others". Hah. | |
There are definitely benifits for both sides.
1) Lonewolf You can move at your own pace. No one slowing you down, or imposing deadlines. You can do it how you want to. Don't have to trackdown/keep track of a team. 2) Team More ideas go into the project(sometimes a negative). Other perspectives can lead you to improving your idea. What you like might not be what the masses like. Someone to check your code, sometimes you'll miss your own errors. If you're working in a team, it's a benifit to have the team close at hand. No offense, but I never want to work with someone over the internet. It's just too much hassle with communincation. Alot of time is wasted just to get the point across. In short, I'd go with a small team (2-3) if you are in direct contact with them. If not, Lonewolf styles... | |
Wolves are much cooler than a "team".
Which reminds me, I gotta get back to my blank compiler screen ALL about Wolves. | |
Kholint wrote:
Wolves are much cooler than a "team". Wolves are pack animals and their survival depends upon their teamwork. A lone wolf is an aberration which has been cast out from the pack because of illness, insanity, or antisocial behaviour and does not last long in the wild. That said, aberrations of nature do usually rate pretty high on the cool scale. ;) | |
Shadowdarke wrote:
Wolves are pack animals and their survival depends upon their teamwork. A lone wolf is an aberration which has been cast out from the pack because of illness, insanity, or antisocial behaviour and does not last long in the wild. That said, aberrations of nature do usually rate pretty high on the cool scale. ;) True, but I was thinking more on the "Would you rather share or rip someone limb from limb?" mode of thought. | |
I'm a definitely lean on the "lone wolf" side, although I've worked with ONE partner before. In my opinion, BYOND games shouldn't exceed more than 3 people on a team; as you can see, most games with 12+ people working on it are still "waiting for more members" for the last few years, and haven't done anything to the game-- the only thing they know about their partner developers is (sometimes) their name.
I agree with all that you said about being a "lone wolf", but sometimes it helps to have a partner. Since creating all stick icons for my game was too much (ironically), I hired Hikato. He sorta faded out of the game and got into other things, so my FANS OFFERED to make lots of icons for me! That's been a pretty reliable source for me. If you want to work with a partner, don't run to the classified ads and post "i need partner to make code and iconz for my dbz" and hope to find some life-lasting, ever-trustworthy partner. Make sure they're reliable friends who know what they're doing. | |
I have a team of 3 at the moment and I wouldn't do without my two helpers...
I have an awesome artist which I don't have the talent to make the things he does, so he is a blessing. That's one you have to consider, the game has to look good and how good are your abilities at drawing? Then I have a friend who was originally a fan who just sort of became more with constant helping out with things, he doesn't code or anything... just I run ideas past him and he tells me his opinion, it helps a ton before you just plug something in and go with it hoping people will like it... It'd be awesome to have more people like him so you can run it past a good variety of people first, before plugging it all in. I do all the programming so that I don't have to worry about people leaking things... However it's fairly simple for someone to just hack your computer, whenever you host your ip is given (which i'm sure is a gateway to connecting to your pc if you don't have firewalls, etc which I hear are easy to get through). Most the ideas in the game aren't necessarily my ideas, in fact they're usually stolen from other games (gasp! I think one of the most highly acclaimed companies does this, what's their name... Blizzard?) and I put all these other ideas from other games together... I figure it's the best bet to plug in things you know work, and people like. So essentially I can't completely have pride for the project, but it's definately a lot of work so I can have pride for the time I've put into it... | |
Besudes icons I would rather work alone.
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I would rather work ona team than have ALL of the work put on my shoulders. However, teams fail too often so it is more convenient, faster, and you are more likely to complete a project without a team.
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I work alone.
Until I need good graphics. >:D | |
I choose 100% Lone Wolf. Although team work has it's advantages, it's not a good idea to work on a team which you cannot contact in person (eye-to-eye). As many said, lone wolf can work at their own pace and don't have to keep track of everything. But you have to be really talented to be a lone wolf (icons + coding). The project won't be as good if the creator is only good in coding with no experience in icons or only good in icons but no experience in coding.
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ZDarkGoku wrote:
But you have to be really talented to be a lone wolf (icons + coding). Not neccessarily. I've never been part of a BYOND programming team, and I can't draw for crap. (My pixel art is better than my pencil-and-paper art, but not hugely so.) I just make the game with placeholder icons, and then get icons from someone/somewhere else later. | |
ZDarkGoku wrote:
The project won't be as good if the creator is only good in coding with no experience in icons or only good in icons but no experience in coding. And that's precisly the reason why people who "do icons" should be shot. They shouldn't be trying to make games, they should be trying to learn how to code. DM is a programming language, not a graphics editor. It's 32 by 32 pixels per tile, compared to coding, it makes the coder look like a genius. People who just design icons should hang their heads in shame, in my opinion. | |
Well, as usual, everyone does something different. IF an artist is making icons, and is making very decent icons, the programmers can look like little kids on some community on the internet. Where as the artist would look like some professional pixel artist.
It just depends on how people are actually making them. I mean, come on, there are hundreds of different ways to make icons and throw them together in DM. Most of the time they don't do a very good job, with little patients, so i'd have to agree with you on some points. | |
Kholintian Destroying Army wrote:
ZDarkGoku wrote: Being artistic, good at game design and good at programming are three entirely different fields. That many ameteurs choose to merge them is mostly due to lack of specialists available. If a "project" turns out good is dependant on many things, but mainly gameplay. And gameplay is neither restrained to the artistic skill of those involved in creating graphics for the game, nor the skill of the programmer, although they can be limiting factors. Picasso won't net you the worlds most fun game, and neither will telling the staff of EverQuests programming core team to create a game. Good ideas are worth everything, and those alone determine the playability of the game (Barring factors such as lag, badly managed code). Ideas aren't limited to the history of the game world (if it has one), but things like the different systems of the game (whether it be combat, crafting or rock tossing), the GUI/Interface of the game and more. To give a shorter response: Anyone who thinks of games in such simple terms as them requiring you to be a programmer to be part of a team who creates one, needs to wake up! If that were true, im pretty damn sure that Half Life 2 wouldn't look as good as it does. How well do you think the programmers working on it draw? Im betting not anywhere near the skill of the professional artists or people who "do icons". | |
Alathon wrote:
Being artistic, good at game design and good at programming are three entirely different fields. That many ameteurs choose to merge them is mostly due to lack of specialists available. If a "project" turns out good is dependant on many things, but mainly gameplay. And gameplay is neither restrained to the artistic skill of those involved in creating graphics for the game, nor the skill of the programmer, although they can be limiting factors. Picasso won't net you the worlds most fun game, and neither will telling the staff of EverQuests programming core team to create a game. Good ideas are worth everything, and those alone determine the playability of the game (Barring factors such as lag, badly managed code). Ideas aren't limited to the history of the game world (if it has one), but things like the different systems of the game (whether it be combat, crafting or rock tossing), the GUI/Interface of the game and more. DM isn't for big (and/or commercial) projects, and anyone can come up with some good ideas if left alone for a while. If you're making a BYOND game, it's very different to making Half Life 2- DM-programmers very often aren't experts, and they usually aren't being paid (much, or nothing at all), and you can't just give them a list of complex ideas and tell them to make it into a game. I believe that the coders in a BYOND project are the "real deal"- they do all the work, and I think they should be the ones designing the game, and coming up with ideas to fit their level of expertise, because you can't take a university course in DM and come out an expert at the same level as a load of others, like you can with other languages. | |
Kholintian Destroying Army wrote:
anyone can come up with some good ideas if left alone for a while. They can? That sure threatens the market of game designers. you can't just give them a list of complex ideas and tell them to make it into a game. You can't? I believe that the coders in a BYOND project are the "real deal"- they do all the work, and I think they should be the ones designing the game, and coming up with ideas to fit their level of expertise Why? What if the people coding don't have very good ideas, but their friend has a load of good ideas but isn't a programmer? because you can't take a university course in DM and come out an expert at the same level as a load of others, like you can with other languages. Maybe because DM doesn't require it (who knows, maybe there will be one eventually! :P). There is no memory management, there is no garbage collection, there is no client/server communication to worry about, no sockets to be fiddled with. Those other languages REQUIRE you to know, in a fair amount of detail / depth what the above are about and how to go about accomplishing them in effecient and flexible/complex methods. DM doesn't. You are regarding DM as if it is a tool that only morons use, because they aren't smart enough to go read a book on C. Some of the members of this community work as programmers for big companies, are taking a degree within the area of game design, are professional web designers or other. Are they here simply because they are too stupid to pick up a C book? I sincerely doubt that. Yes, there are a lot of young people who use DM. But what reason is there to teach them something completely off base (That programmers should spearhead all projects and THEY are the only ones able to comprehend probable game ideas, and icon artists are morons and should be hung), in order to what, limit their options? That attitude would do more bad than good, by far. In my opinion :) | |