There's a difference between a Christian and a religious nutjob... although I don't think Bush is as much of a nutjob or a Christian as people think. He plays it up because he knows people will eat it up. "Jesus is the biggest influence in my life." It's easy to do and it doesn't cost him anything, and it saves him from having to demonstrate any actual moral foundation to his thinking.

Also, most of the founding fathers were philosophers, deists, and humanists more so than anything you would recognize as Christian. They invoked "Providence" and "The Creator" in a general way. Oh, there is one notable exception: the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. He was very much a proponent of religion in public (government) life. Guess what? He moved back to England.

Hedgemistress wrote:

So much propaganda, so little time to refute it... I've read a lot in the past few days about how Bush offered a clear, black and white view of the world. I think that's a nice way of saying what a joke e-mail forward said: stupid people like Bush.

How is it stupid to have a plan and stick to it?

Bush appeals to shallow, unthinking people who are not inclined to actually think about right and wrong... people who want their morality in sound bytes.

And how, pray tell, did you come to this information?

If you really want to go after the terrorists that attack and threaten us, you should be furious with Bush's "leadership." Bush has done nothing but attack phantoms and fragments. He did nothing until we were attacked and now you take Kerry quotes out of context to make it seem like he would do the same thing Bush already did.

Out of context? Are you nuts?

Kerry has a plan. Why didn't he go over it in detail? He's not in office. It would be a mistake to go over the plan in detail when the details would likely change by the time he got to put it into effect. Of course, Bushies don't understand that, because they think altering a plan in response to new information is a sign of weakness. They think the best leader is the one who crashes the car into the wall instead of going around it 'cause God forbid you admit you weren't headed in the exact right direction out of the gate.

The only thing Kerry said he'd do was bring allies to the table, which isn't even possible. I think the best leader is the one who takes the initiative to strike back before we get struck again. We either kill them over their or we kill them - over here.

And you think Bush has a plan? Yeah, like his plan in Iraq. Who did he have writing that, the Underpants Gnomes? "Step one: Invade Iraq. Step two: ? Step three: Peace and stability." His only plan was "Get rid of Saddam."

When in history has a campaign been fully fleged against terrorism? This is the first. I wrote a paper about terrorism, and why it was a threat to the USA 5 months before 9/11 and my liberal teacher and my classmates scoffed at the notion. How do you think they feel now? A bit stupid they didn't see it coming. I don't disagree with you that we should have been fighting it earlier, but Clinton held office for 8 years and did nothing except get our boys killed because of a liberal political move not to let heavy armor into a crazy african nation full of gun toting crack pots. Black Hawk down anyone?
George H. Bush Invaded Iraq and made the world safer, though I wish we would have finished the job. But once again we were trying to make everyone happy. And get our boys back home. We can't afford to bail out this time.
Before Bush, Reagan, and the liberals scoffed at him for the arms race and the lavish spending (I belive Jon88 has attempted to say the same thing about George W. Bush) on weaponry, and Reagan crippled Russia's economy, and ended the cold war. Then he showed strong leadership and bravery and demanded that the Berlin Wall be torn down, and it was.
Lately, the republicans seem to be knowing what they're doing more than the democrats when it comes to making the world a safer place.

He came into office knowing he wanted to get rid of Saddam, he took us to war knowing he wanted to get rid of Saddam, he got rid of Saddam. How do people look at this singlemindedness and mistake it for strength of character? He has doomed Afghanistan to decades more of turmoil by diverting attention, troops, and resources before anything meaningful was put into place there to replace what we removed... and has turned Iraq into a bigger SNAFU... just to accomplish a goal that I would wager not even he is fully certain why it was important.

Doomed Afghanistan? Then why are they doing so much better than before? Decades? Even crazier. Our troops are still there, my best friend will be going there in the summer. Lady, you're dead wrong there. Sounds to me like propoganda...

You can say "Well he said he would do it and he did it," but what are you really bragging about? Hey, we won Iraq... and now we're stuck with it. Iraq isn't a stronghold for us. It's the complete opposite of one. It's a weak hold. It will never be a strong hold for us because the people don't want us there. Those "insurgents" you hear about on the news? They aren't all from Iran and other nearby countries. Quite a few of them are "insurging" from just down the street.

True, partially, but don't think for a second that a country the size of texas filled to the brim with weaponry by a militaristic dictator is easily quashed. No, it takes time, blood, money, and conviction. This is why we esteem Bush so highly, he speaks the truth and fights our enemies head on. He doesn't cower to the merciless terrorists, or play into their plots (like france). He isn't corrupt, he is a moral man who wants nothing more than to see his fellow americans safe, even at the cost of scorn and ridicule. This is the strength we revere, it is not just from dealing with 9/11 so courageously, it is the political courage that he shows when he speaks from his heart instead of sidestepping the issue at hand, he doesn't play softly at bat, he aims for a home run. He doesn't look for the most eloquent words in a debate, he looks for the truth.

We have lost 1,000 lives and gained nothing. NOTHING. We have propped up a phony democracy that won't outlast our presence there. We have Saddam in custody, yes. One big bad scary man. Whoo, go team. Likewise with all the terrorist leaders we've captured... the Bush administration has built each one up into a brand name so that you will be convinced they've accomplished something when they flash their names and pictures on the news.

The lives of millions is worth a 1000. Though life should not be esteemed lightly. And its worth is more than I can ever explain. Saddam was more than scary, he hung people from meat hooks, he slaughted women carrying their babies, he executed many, many, many people for no better reason than his and his soldiers perverse pleasure. Do you remember the mass graves I wonder? Probably not. And yet Saddam is in jail, not on some meat hook somewhere...lucky him.
If the names of the terrorists were not reported with their pictures on the news, it would only serve to give you and your ilk, more ammunition to hurl blindly at the Bush administration. Think about it, if we don't show the pictures and their names, how does anyone know we're doing anything at all?

It's not any more "dangerous" for terrorists now than it is for everybody else. It's become a breeding ground for them. It wasn't a great place before, but it wasn't a three dimensional Al-Qaeda recruitment poster before, either, and now it is.

It is indeed more dangerous, the problem is that we still play politics in deciding not to destory muslim shrines or other safe havens for terrorists. If this was WWII they would all be dead by now, Faullujah wouldn't even exist.
We'd bomb them into oblivion without regard to who was where. We've dealt with them long enough, given them enough chances, I would wipe them from the face of the earth.

You want to be a patriot? Well, it's two days late for that.

No, my fair lady, it is never too late.

Sexist, shades?

Maybe now that the election is over, people will stop their melodramatic whining, complaining and speculation. Both sides are guilty of doing this, but there are way more annoying liberal cry babies out there, as this thread proves.

It would be nice to see a 2008 election built upon discussion of the issues, rather than tearing down the opposing side.

Get over it people.

Maybe now that the election is over, people will stop their melodramatic whining, complaining and speculation. Both sides are guilty of doing this, but there are way more annoying liberal cry babies out there, as this thread proves.

Heh as Xooxer pointed out people will whine and complain as long as they have the right to even if it makes little sense for them to do so :).

Chalk up one for the extremist conspiracy theories.

I've got one! Kerry was sired by aliens who intended to use him as a puppet president. To what end you ask? To turn Texas into a massive landing site for their mother ship to make the invasion of the world that much easier.

Under the brutal rule of these aliens we'd be forced to eat nothing but ketchup and speak French. Oh the horror!

Too bad Kerry isn't a Republican, or Michael Moore would have made a movie about all of this to give the world's population fair warning.

Except when Clinton Ended His term the Us had 2 trillion Dollars sitting in surplus. You now have a defecit of 1 trillion.

Deal with what? You starting another immature subject? This is the same damn thing as the other subject, there was no reason to start a new one. Use commen sense.

Yes, I agree, Kerry does not look like a monkey...he looks like a damn gorilla. Look at his friggin' chin man. It's massive. And you have to admit, he is wearing a damn wig.

That man has so many chemicals in his face. His smile is probally mechanical.