Well,I'm currently going to start up a SPY type role playing game. Not like MLAAS(I've never played it,only seen the hub but im thinking its a strategy type game?). Anyways I was thinking when you create a spy you pick either side(There is only two) and fight each other off. This would be something like an actual ORPG(i.e. seika (yeah bad example)) and not a level-by-level(i.e. Proelium) thing if you know what i mean. I need suggestions on how i should create a spy type rpg and what should be implemented. Thanks in advance.
~>Jiskuha
ID:153145
 Dec 7 2004, 12:26 pm (Edited on Dec 7 2004, 12:39 pm)
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Jiskuha wrote:
Not like MLAAS(I've never played it,only seen the hub). Anyways I was thinking when you create a spy you pick either side(There is only two) and fight each other off. If you've never played it, how do you know it's not like it? Your second sentence led me to believe that it actually would be like it. I have not played it enough to know the particulars, but I have played it for a few minutes and know of the general idea (though even if I hadn't, I could probably guess it is about groups of spies going against each other.) I need suggestions on how i should create a spy type rpg and what should be implemented. Thanks in advance. If you truely want it to be about spying, then you have to think to yourself "Why would the players be spying in the first place?" They need something to give them a kick in the right direction. Generally, spying is done when one group wants to know about another group. Not just at random though, as nobody cares what the guy down the street is doing in his garage. Spying is done when you need to keep tabs on someone you don't trust or someone who has data you need. I suggest you put in multiple areas that are considered to be owned by different governments and have some random events that people for that nation need to accomplish while people of the other nation need to stop them and/or take over the operation. Obviously, you don't want to make the spies stick out with a color or tag to mark their nationality, as the general idea of being a spy is to blend in. Make the objectives needing to be carried out something that requires a team effort. Now as long as the player is a good spy it should just be a matter of posing as a local, finding out about a job that's going down, and foiling it (stealing the items needed to accomplish the objective, shooting those working on it, telling your own government that an attack is coming so they can counter it, ect.) That is the general idea behind spy work. If you want to get a feel for the job, watch The Recruit. Excellent movie, and the DVD has a section in the bonus features where a CIA officer talks about things they actually do. | |
Loduwijk wrote:
If you've never played it, how do you know it's not like it? Your second sentence led me to believe that it actually would be like it. I have not played it enough to know the particulars, but I have played it for a few minutes and know of the general idea (though even if I hadn't, I could probably guess it is about groups of spies going against each other.) [snip](I've never played it,only seen the hub but im thinking its a strategy type game?).[snip] If you truely want it to be about spying, then you have to think to yourself "Why would the players be spying in the first place?" They need something to give them a kick in the right direction. Generally, spying is done when one group wants to know about another group. Not just at random though, as nobody cares what the guy down the street is doing in his garage. Spying is done when you need to keep tabs on someone you don't trust or someone who has data you need. Ah,I will keep this in mind! I suggest you put in multiple areas that are considered to be owned by different governments and have some random events that people for that nation need to accomplish while people of the other nation need to stop them and/or take over the operation. Obviously, you don't want to make the spies stick out with a color or tag to mark their nationality, as the general idea of being a spy is to blend in. This is a very good idea,i should have random events rather than depend on the players to create conterversay between the groups which is what i wanted to do. Make the objectives needing to be carried out something that requires a team effort. Now as long as the player is a good spy it should just be a matter of posing as a local, finding out about a job that's going down, and foiling it (stealing the items needed to accomplish the objective, shooting those working on it, telling your own government that an attack is coming so they can counter it, ect.) That is the general idea behind spy work. Thanks,I dont know everything about spying so i was stuck with that. If you want to get a feel for the job, watch The Recruit. Excellent movie, and the DVD has a section in the bonus features where a CIA officer talks about things they actually do. I will rent that movie. Thanks for the advice. ~>Jiskuha | |
Having played MLAAS until my eyes bled, I now realize that all spies on Earth are armed to the teeth with at least one high-tech pistol, a heavy caliber pistol, and a big freaking knife dripping in eight kinds of poison that can kill a man in less time than it takes for the blade to be swung. A bunch of guns, knives, and heavy pieces of armor are not a large part of a spy's inventory. He'd have stuff to keep him hidden, stuff to aid in surveillance, stuff to get around obstacles (organic or otherwise), and stuff to escape should something go wrong. MLAAS basically says "screw all that junk, here's a bunch of guns and armor." Not very fitting to the spy theme, if you ask me.
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Mertek wrote:
MLAAS basically says "screw all that junk, here's a bunch of guns and armor." Not very fitting to the spy theme, if you ask me. No, but its sure to attract peope from BYOND's playerbase. :P | |
Okay, one consideration:
Don't make Byond subscribers super powerful, *cough* MLAAS *cough*, because it ruins the game. Once I was in my own base, Green, and a purple came in. I had two rank square things, he had something like 3000. I was shocked. Anyway, he put on a mask and turned himself Green- taking my name, too. I said "Hey!" and went to stab him. I did 0 damage. He said "Hey, don't mess with me, I'm omnipotent" (or words to that effect). He then proceeded to rig every square of flooring of the base with traps, hacking every machine, stealing every bit of merchandise. I couldn't even stop him- he was so powerful compared to me, I could only stand there and have a nice chat with my attacker. | |
Elation wrote:
Okay, one consideration: If you played MLAAS enough you would know that the purple spy isn't "urber powerful" at all. The only reason why you have to pay for the purple spy is because he can steal equipment right from your inventory. If every single player was like that the game would be pure chaous. You cannot boost your stats or buy limited edition super weapons in the game, you can only get hold of the purple spy. It seems your pissed cause someone who has played the game much longer then you got into your base and pwned you team. Ive done it already, but in a much more visible way. I blow out walls with explosives and just start shooting. :P | |
Regardless, it's still a game design flaw when I can only have a friendly chat with my enemy because he's so uber powerful, I can't make any impact, and he could kill me in one blow.
When the player balance like that tips, meaning all skill is out of the window (click the "Attack" verb and own me instantly? Fun.), it sounds like maybe I should go off to a corner and hit p-bags 'til I can take on the uber-powerful spy. | |
Well you are correct to a certian extent. The players themselfs should have the same amount of life and damange, reguardless of their ranking.
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Mertek wrote:
Having played MLAAS until my eyes bled, I now realize that all spies on Earth are armed to the teeth with at least one high-tech pistol, a heavy caliber pistol, and a big freaking knife dripping in eight kinds of poison that can kill a man in less time than it takes for the blade to be swung. A bunch of guns, knives, and heavy pieces of armor are not a large part of a spy's inventory. He'd have stuff to keep him hidden, stuff to aid in surveillance, stuff to get around obstacles (organic or otherwise), and stuff to escape should something go wrong. This is good,I don't want it just to be a game where you load up a gun and blow players apart every minute. MLAAS basically says "screw all that junk, here's a bunch of guns and armor." Not very fitting to the spy theme, if you ask me. I Shall stay away from that type of game play then :). I plan to have players to be able to blow walls up in another teams base or be able to somehow disguise themselves as a fellow spy of the opposite team and deceive them to take out their team or put in lots of surveillance like bugs and camera's for his team to watch until they are ready to attack. They can also set bombs etc etc. You know what I'm getting at. ~>Jiskuha | |
Jiskuha wrote:
[snip](I've never played it,only seen the hub but im thinking its a strategy type game?).[snip] Exactly, I rest my case. That wasn't really an important issue though, just something that struck me as odd so I mentioned it. Ah,I will keep this in mind! You sound quite sarcastic, though I hope I am merely misinterpreting this. Although I would assume everything I said should be obvious, it apparently is not. Most people completely ignore the underlying concept of spying when they think of spies, which I find to be extremely odd. Take that rediculous movie Spy Kids for example. This is a very good idea,i should have random events rather than depend on the players to create conterversay between the groups which is what i wanted to do. This sounds heavily laden with sarcasm. Remember, you are posting in the design philosophy and asking for advice. When advice comes, don't belittle it. If you don't like the idea then don't use it, it's your game. I was merely making a suggestion. However, I would be interested in knowing how the players are expected to create this controversy you speak of when there is no catalyst for them to bring it in through. Having some random objectives spring into being occasionally is a great way to get the role playing jump-started. Make the objectives needing to be carried out something that requires a team effort. Now as long as the player is a good spy it should just be a matter of posing as a local, finding out about a job that's going down, and foiling it (stealing the items needed to accomplish the objective, shooting those working on it, telling your own government that an attack is coming so they can counter it, ect.) That is the general idea behind spy work. Of course. It only makes sense that you would be stuck since you were not planning on adding any elements that make spying feasible. I will rent that movie. Thanks for the advice. No problem. The first half of the movie where they are in training is the most relevant part, and some of the deleted scenes you will have access to with the DVD. And as I said before, the section in which they discuss real spies working for the US government. If your first few comments were not meant to be heavily sarcastic as I took them to be, then pay little heed to my responses to them. I did get second oppinions from others though, and everyone agreed it seemed overly sarcastic. (I am cautious about assuming the other person's intent ever since I misinterpreted something Lummox said once upon a time and wasted both of our time by assuming it was meant in a derogative fashion.) | |
I wasn't being sarcastic,sorry if it seemed that way. I was being very serious and trying to be polite. What i meant to say was what i had original thought of not wanted to do. I worded that wrong. Please disregard that :)
~>Jiskuha | |
Okay;
Spies: -Sexy -ALWAYS really good looking -European ones are the best because they are exotic -Women -Must be amply endowed That's all you need. | |
Jiskuha wrote:
I plan to have players to be able to blow walls up in another teams base or be able to somehow disguise themselves as a fellow spy of the opposite team and deceive them to take out their team or put in lots of surveillance like bugs and camera's for his team to watch until they are ready to attack. They can also set bombs etc etc. You know what I'm getting at. MLAAS has bombs, but nobody uses them. I think I've seen it happen once, but it's pretty pointless when the wall respawns in a minute. As for the disguising and surveillance and such... you'd need to make it useful. In MLAAS, I don't think anyone has ever used the camera. It's pointless. Why would you? Yep, that red guy is moving around in the red base, just like I thought. Make it a point to use the items, not just to have them there so you can say your game has spy gadgets. :P | |
MLaaS is an almost stereotypical ORPG, without "enemies" being AI. My suggestion: Make a spy, "strategy" game.
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No offense, but this seems fairly vague. We got promises of spy gadgets, and an effort to make it spyish. But what happens in the game? What does a player do, what can each agency specifically do to each other?
You could have a capture the flag kind of mentality, with the agencies constantly stealing important documents from each other. Using various gadgets, you steal the documents. Smoke-bombs and explosions to draw attraction away from where your cohorts are slipping into the ventilation ducts? I.D. badges taken off dead foes to enter the enemy base in disguise? Hidden cameras to find how many are in the base? Disrupt enemy communication with jamming devices or hacking? Traps to set general havoc? Booby-documents, set to self destruct once within the enemy base? Fake identification papers to evade capture from the police while in enemy territory? As the thief attempts to bring it back to their side counter-measures can be taken to hunt-down the carrier and reclaim the doc. Thieves can in turn hand-off the documents to others, so that even if they're caught, the document may continue to go back to the base. Pretend to be a fellow agent willing to carry the document, while you really are in disguise? Safe houses to stay after your attempted assasination failed? Tap phone lines from enemy safe houses to find out information? Dunno, just some random stuff I felt like throwing out. The Recruit is a decent movie to get some ideas. You might also want to read some spy novels if you're into books, and Frederick Forsyth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Forsyth) is fairly good. | |
Mage_man wrote:
No offense, but this seems fairly vague. That's because I'm still planning out the basics. I posted in design philosophy to get idea's. ~>Jiskuha | |
Mertek wrote:
In MLAAS, I don't think anyone has ever used the camera. It's pointless. Why would you? Yep, that red guy is moving around in the red base, just like I thought. Make it a point to use the items, not just to have them there so you can say your game has spy gadgets. :P Agreed, the viewing camera is pretty useless. There's another kind of camera that I remember being useful, though; you stick it on the ground and it automatically takes pictures of people who are doing suspicious things, netting you TP (training points). (I don't remember what they were called exactly; they did have different names though. It's a while since I've actually played the game.) That was good, because it was spyish (getting evidence of other spys' wrongdoings) and there was a point to it (because you were rewarded for using it well). | |
Have cool spy gadgets to foil your enemies plans!