This is not a rant, it's not designed to demean or make anyone or anything look bad, it's just here as a reference.
DBZ, commonly know as DragonalBall Zeta, is a popular theme of game, on BYOND and outside. The TV show has had many people re-inacting and attempting to re-inact moments from the show.
Now, I am probably being blindingly obvious when I say this, but I think that the reason the program attracts so many people, because, quite honestly, the people who like it are power-freaks who just want more power, or complete weaklings who need a sort of 'power' for themselves.
DBZ attracts this because of the vast 'power' concept around it. It gives the players the chance to 'level' to unbeatable levels and it, does, actually make them feel bigger than what they are.
Now, moving on, the concept of DBZ is around to many haters as well. A lot of you, like me, completely detest DBZ, and anything that is remotely related to it, you go "OMFG NO WAY". An example of this, is just as the DBZ games on the BYOND hub grew to an uncontrollable level, people started to think that 'punching bags' and 'leveling up' is a DBZ concept, which it isn't. It's been around for god only knows how long, and will hopefully be around for a long time in the future.
The point of this post, is to let the people who don't understand what drives DBZers know, and to try and get people to stop hating leveling, punching bags and that sort of stuff. Yeah. Done. Sorted. Whee.
~AZA
ID:153025
Mar 23 2005, 10:01 pm
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It's gone so far as to even people who regularly play Dragon Ball Z games on BYOND, go to another game and ask "Where are the pbags?" or something to that effect, regards to a Zeta game. Someone should do a study on players of these games for a science fair project ;).
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In response to Uber Soldier
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Heh, the results would prove to be unbearable.
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DBZ is commonly known as "Dragonball Z". If it's known as "Dragonball Zeta" to people here, ouch, that hurts.
I don't understand where you think people watching something because they like power and/or like watching people that have power is a bad thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the things the TV is good about(and games, for that matter)? Usually if it's something I can do in real life - I don't watch it on TV or play a game based on it. In some rarer occasions I might(Football, for instance). But usually, no. |
lots of RPGs are based around tedious activities which make your character more powerful.
its probably a popular theme for the games because its a popular tv show. if it had an original theme, then it probably wouldn't attract as many people because they don't necessarily like that theme. a good theme can compensate for bad gameplay, to some people. but, a good game with a bad theme is still a good game. |
In response to OneFishDown
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~>Jiskuha |
In response to Jiskuha
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Hey Dragonball games are slowly loosing popularty to other games, such as Megaman, Naturo and other games.
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Dragonball games on BYOND are the equivalent to sports games on consoles. Basically, there are too many of them, you either like them or you hate them, they are often really tedious and boring, and the only difference between them is little details such as graphics or "playable characters".
It's a valid comparison. I do agree with the idea that the only reason people play DBZ games is to become powerful. If it weren't so, there wouldn't be about a thousand of them. Now, I know some people didn't understand that last statement, so I'll explain it. People create their own slight modifications so they can either A) make them easier to become powerful, or B) Become "GMs" and gain the "ultimate" form of power on BYOND. I don't mind DBZ games themselves, some are actually enjoyable for a little while, but the things do get tedious. As do all games, eventually. Some games have been able to pique my interest for months and some years, though. Fable, Morrowind, Runescape(unfortunately), Ultima Online, Ultima 6-8, and even such games as HrH. The reason I liked them was because of the possibilities. Morrowind, I liked because I could essentially do whatever I wanted, Fable I liked because I could become a travelling merchant and then get in drunken fistfights with balverines, Runescape for some reason... Maybe collecting better armour, or something. Ultima Online for almost the same reason as RS, Ultima 6-8 because I liked collecting things. I'd just go raiding items from people and then kill people randomly. Hedgerow Hall, I liked because I enjoyed sculpting my burrow and stocking it with food, ale, and basically renting rooms to people. If I caught them not paying up on time, I'd just cave their room in and throw their stuff outside for anyone to steal. As for DBZ itself, I appreciate it when people try to breathe life into the genre, but it almost never works. Now, I do disagree with you on one point, AZA, I don't like "leveling up" and metaphorically hitting Pbags to get stronger. I could hit a punching bag all of my life and only be good at just that, punching. I'd eventually plateau due to simple human limits. In online games, I like a certain aspect of realism. I hate it when games like Runescape have millions of adventurers wandering around doing the same thing. It's basically a single player game that's attached to a chatroom. I like it when teamwork and community are encouraged. (Runescape's been trying to do that with joint-quests, and team quests recently, but all that ends up becoming is a group of players selfishly seeking other players to further themselves, not to form a cohesive team and enjoy themselves.) Mystic Realms of Alhanzar had a cool system of play, with a team you could wipe dungeons out swiftly and safely. There were some places that required you work intelligently with your team rather than bash stuff to death and gain experience form another person's kills. I think what most online games need is a fluid economy. Rather than an arbitrary value placed on items, supply and demand actually determines the price of items, as well as availability and other events. This would allow players to become professional traders, buying items from an area of abundance, and carting them to an area of high demand to sell them for profit. Then, you can actually start reducing the profit players gain from monster-slaying. Rather than getting gold off of monsters, you could get commodities and then sell THOSE to gain gold. Of course, some players would prefer to walk to a place where they are needed and then sell them for high profit themselves, many would actually sell to other players for a reduced price so that they didn't have to do the travelling. This would make it so that certain players could actually be professional merchants. Anyway, I got off topic. I don't like the concept of leveling up. I like the concept of time-based character progression, but it only goes so far. I personally like the method of the more practice a skill gets, the better the player gets with that skill and with like skills. Eventually, when he gets good enough, he can either keep practicing it until he reaches a higher level of skill himself, or he can actually pay someone to train him themselves. It is still essentially "leveling up", but it takes a bit of the randomness of "You have just leveled up!" out of the game. I mean, have you ever gone out and done something for a while, and suddenly felt better at it? No, you progress gradually over time. If someone teaches you something new, or you discover something works a bit better than an old method you use, yeah, you will suddenly get a little bit better with less practice than it would have taken for you to have gotten just as good at an inferior method. That's my two bits. ~Ter |
In response to Shades
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Shades wrote:
Hey Dragonball games are slowly loosing popularty to other games, such as Megaman, Naturo and other games. And that's any better? Most people around here hate DBZ because it's popular, not because it's bad, as such. :P |
In response to Elation
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<_< Then the rest of us hate it for both reasons.
But yeah, I remember my newbie days, I was so impressed by simple admin commands, I was never a DBZ'er but Seika came to me naturally, after gaining enough of a lust for power, I diddle-dallied around with Dream Maker, now, power means nothing to me... Oh well <_< Theres my half cent. _> And Ter13, that wasn't two bits, it was more like ten dimes. -- Super Squirrel ((I r teh pwnz.)) |
DBZ as the barely incoherent adolescent male power fantasy that it is, I don't like repetitive, boring RPG conventions either. You could have the greatest backstory in the world, but if I have to repeatedly click just to trudge through countless levels of mind numbing tedium- No thanks! Likewise, poor background can be ignored if a game is fun (Warhammer Fantasy Battles comes to mind...).
The problem with most DBZ games is they combine the worst of both: near non-existent plot with terrible game play. This doesn't have to be so; a DBZ game could conceivably be fun, even to a hater like myself (I actually thought Budokai for the PlayStation was a decent button masher and found more problems with play balance than the setting or story). And the player climate of many of these games doesn't help. Even a very good game (such as Ultima Online) can be harpooned by an out of control player base. It's much worse when the game isn't even solid to begin with. The end result is that any game with a DBZ name is facing an uphill battle- negative preconceptions, attracting many bad players, etc. But part of that comes with the territory of making a derivative product, I think. If your not willing to think out your own story and reason for a game, what does that indicate about probable quality and dedication? While their may be a few talented folks out there who can do it, by and large such is not the case.... |
In response to Ter13
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Ter13 wrote:
Dragonball games on BYOND are the equivalent to sports games on consoles. they update them annually to include new players, trades, stats, and teams? It's a valid comparison. this post is a delicious ham sandwich... oh, its not that easy =/ that the only reason people play DBZ games is to become powerful. the basis of the game is to become powerful. what else did you expect? but, that's the basis of many games on BYOND or not. if people don't like the basis of the game, then its a really good thing that nobody is forcing them to play the games. i don't know about the modifications, i've never played one for more than a few minutes. but, not all of them are just the same game with different GMs. and i dont mean that they keep the same GMs, they change the game. I mean, have you ever gone out and done something for a while, and suddenly felt better at it? yes, who hasn't? it tends to happen when people practice things. in games it tends to happen faster, and there is often a numerical value to show your skill in something. but, in real life, when people practice things, they do get better at them. in games, skill progression is sped up for the sake of fun. it may take 10 years to become a decent weaponsmith in real life, but it would be silly for it to take 10 years in the game to become a good weaponsmith. also, your skill in the game is represented by numbers because thats what games do. in reality, your general health is a complex thing which depends on lots of factors. in a game, your health is usually represented by a single number. |
In response to OneFishDown
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Whilst I agree with some of your counterpoints to my points, I tend to generally disagree, and I'll agree to disagree, for the sake that we have had debates for ages before this one, neither able to change the mind of the other.
I wasn't saying the learning curve shouldn't be sped up, it'd be ludicrous to expect a player to spend days on end working at a game. Games are meant to be fun, but at the same time, they shouldn't be so easy that the player should have to spend epic amounts of time on one thing just so they can enjoy the game. I merely stated that without the ability to recieve pointers when you are doing something wrong, you aren't going to learn as fast as if you had a tutor. I like it when games reflect this idea. Whereas some games just allow you to get better over time all by yourself, I like games that allow you to get better by yourself, but you can pay someone to help you to convert your experience with that skill into more skill --up to a certain point. And OFD, you can make just about any kind of a comparison between two slightly unlike things fall apart if you focus on the parts that aren't being compared. I stated that DBZ games are like sports games; constantly having a new one come out with little or nothing of any consequence added or changed. |
In response to Jmurph
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I like your point, if you aren't even going to take any time and effort into making something YOUR game, or doing it right, why should anyone put the time in to try to enjoy it?
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In response to Jmurph
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Jmurph wrote:
The problem with most DBZ games is they combine the worst of both: near non-existent plot with terrible game play. the problem with any game that combines bad plot and terrible gameplay is that it has a bad plot and terrible gameplay. being based on dragonball z is coincidental here. the bad plot and gameplay may often occur in games that aren't original. but, that lack of quality has nothing to do with the games being unoriginal, its the fault of whoever made the game. and on byond, most of the better developers don't make dbz games. the quality of the dbz games should be lower, but not because it is based on dbz, but because the people making them tend to be less experienced and are not as good at making games. it seems silly to me, but for a lot of people it seems that the theme of the game is the biggest problem. of all the people that complain about the dbz games on byond, i doubt that many of them have actually tried playing them for a decent amount of time. and some of the people that complain enjoy playing games with equally bad gameplay. if you remove the whole dbz theme, and insert an original theme, but keep the bad gameplay, it would probably attract many people that hate the dbz games, even though its just as bad of a game. lots of people liked the pokemon games for gameboy because they were fun games. even if those people didn't like pokemon, they'd admit that the games were fun. i don't know why, maybe byonders are just afraid to like a dbz game because of what everyone's opinion of what a "dbzer" is. If your not willing to think out your own story and reason for a game, what does that indicate about probable quality and dedication? it can indicate whatever you want. jump to every conclusion you'd like. but, i'll be reasonable. if someone doesn't think of their own story for their game, that only means that they didn't feel like thinking of their own story for their game. maybe they were more concerned about other aspects of the game. like making it fun. a bad story, even if its original, can ruin it. so, maybe being unoriginal isn't the worst thing. |
In response to OneFishDown
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Heh, I played this one DBZ game for a few days or so, one of my other friends was giving me no other choice, I've never been a huge fan of the show, well, I started playing... but, I wasn't impressed. Theres was NO story line at all, the training system was way too easy and went way too high, that game left an impression on me which has lasted to this day. If there was any bit left of myself that wanted to play, it was crushed by the atmosphere of the DBZ haters. As well as the Pokemon games, I was an addict up to the later versions, but the BYOND take of them proved inferrior. Then the Halo series, awesome games, butchered by BYOND... I hope those of you reading this seemm to notice a pattern.
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And for the leveling, it doesn't concern me much, seeing as how I don't care much for game with actual "stats".
I have yet one more message to leave before I disperse into nothingness...
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LET UP ON THE "DBZ" CREATIONS! THE IDEA HAS BEEN DONE!
<_< Oh, and a rip isn't limited to icons or code snippits, ideas are also a factor.
And, HOLY JESUS OF GUAQAMOLE! My disk drive opened at 3:00 AM by accident, I have litteraly scared the Bejebus out of myself.
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-- Super Squirrel
((ACK, GET IT OFF, GET IT OFF!!! OH MY GOD IT'S EATING MY FLESH!))