Deadron's comment.

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ID:185424
 
Feb 5 2006, 6:58 pm (Edited on Feb 5 2006, 7:54 pm)
To quote Deadron...

We want to support fan groups while still making the system accessible to everyone else. There have been a lot of concerns about the Unpublished live listing being filled with DragonballZ games to the extent that it is difficult to find the non-DBZ games.

So we're trying something new. To make it easier for DBZers to find DBZ games, and for non-DBZers to find non-DBZ games, there is a new Unpublished channel:

FanGames.DragonballZ.Unpublished

Please submit your DBZ games (that don't already belong to another DBZ channel) to this channel. Any DBZ game submitted to this channel will be accepted as soon as we get to it. There will be no review of these games by the BYOND staff.

Gradually, we'll work through the hub and manually add DBZ games to this channel if they haven't been submitted already.

If this approach works out, we are likely to add more features in the future. For example, we may set Unpublished categories like this to auto-accept submissions.<

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More specifically...

Gradually, we'll work through the hub and manually add DBZ games to this channel if they haven't been submitted already.<

Whoa, stop. Thats the part I dont like, my game is not a rip and therefore I dont want it put in the section with all the other rips, I know those arent your words but they are mine. What I'm saying is that just because 90%+ of DBZ related games are rips doesnt mean I want mine stereotyped and put in that section with all the others, especially when mine is original.

The rips on the other hand, I dont care what happens to them because I dont play them, in fact I think the Zeta source which is used to 'make' those 'games' (if you even want to call them that) should be deleted from the developer site to hinder further rips from popping up on the hub.

Ok, I've stated my side. And if any of this is taken into consideration my game is Dragonball Finale, named to signify that it is the end to all rips.

[Edit: Also, Finale is not DBZ, its DB, and although you may not know the difference, there is a major one. And although I wont bring up each significant difference I will just say that my game does not belong in the category of DBZ, and is the ONLY game based on DB on BYOND that I know of. After all, the problem is NOT DB/Z, its ripped games, merely because the hub is plagued with rips is not due to DBZ itself but rather the ready available Zeta source free to the public, and with DBZ's massive fanbase that has caused a disaster. That is why there are so many horrible DBZ games. Once again, these are my words, not necessarily yours.]

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[Edit]
So we're trying something new. To make it easier for DBZers to find DBZ games, and for non-DBZers to find non-DBZ games, there is a new Unpublished channel:

FanGames.DragonballZ.Unpublished<

Well... The only reason people would need to find non-DBZ games is if those games were bad, otherwise it wouldnt matter what they were based on because most people would enjoy them regardless of what their basis is. Thats the real problem I beleive.
Feb 5 2006, 7:04 pm
Dragonn wrote:
To quote Deadron...

For future reference, please note that a quote does not open with > and end with <. There are only two generally accepted forms of angle brace quotes: putting < in front of every line (or paragraph in this case), or opening with << and ending with >>. It was rather confusing reading your post.

Gradually, we'll work through the hub and manually add DBZ games to this channel if they haven't been submitted already.

Whoa, stop. Thats the part I dont like, my game is not a rip and therefore I dont want it put in the section with all the other rips, I know those arent your words but they are mine. What I'm saying is that just because 90%+ of DBZ related games are rips doesnt mean I want mine stereotyped and put in that section with all the others, especially when mine is original.

Well, two things here:

1) The review process as you know it is on hiatus, except for demos and libraries, pending some hub changes.
2) Everybody and their dog says the exact same thing about their DBZ games.

Ok, I've stated my side. And if any of this is taken into consideration my game is Dragonball Finale, named to signify that it is the end to all rips.

The release of one new non-rip, however good, will do nothing to end rips.

Lummox JR
Feb 5 2006, 7:09 pm (Edited on Feb 5 2006, 7:53 pm)
In response to Lummox JR
Lummox JR wrote:
2) Everybody and their dog says the exact same thing about their DBZ games.
Lummox JR

[Edit: I see your point of view, I take back what I said because I misunderstood what you said. And although you say that the DBZ Horse has been beaten to death, and I agree... The only thing in my game taken from DB/Z would be the ability to fire energy attacks from your hands, which to me is an interesting concept regardless of whether or not it came from DB/Z. There are a few other good concepts from DBZ but they merely enhance the game.]
Feb 5 2006, 7:19 pm
In response to Dragonn
Dragonn wrote:
Lummox JR wrote:
2) Everybody and their dog says the exact same thing about their DBZ games.
Lummox JR

About that, I forgot to add that to my original post, (so I will add it here because I really want you to see it.) but you are stereotyping my game by saying that everyone and their dog says the same thing about their dbz games.

No, I'm just stating that everybody and their dog says the same thing about their DBZ games. Whether what they say is true or not is up in the air. It is not, however, a stereotype. Literally all DBZ game authors say that except the ones who say "Yeah, it's a rip." And even that latter crowd finds ways to say "...but it's different!"

So the one instance that it happens to be true, it is overlooked due to being stereotyped, and that is a mistake.

It's overlooked due to too many authors crying wolf. Stereotyping has nothing to do with it. "My DBZ game is different" is practically a mantra, and at this point (actually, several years before this point) it's come to have as much meaning as a goth saying "I'm nonconformist."

And I guess thats why I started this topic in the first place. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just saying, my game is different and if it does have Dragonball in the title that doesnt mean anything.

Ah but it does; the subject matter has been done to death. This horse has been beaten, shot, stabbed, beaten, buried, exhumed, and beaten again. It's your choice of stale subject that causes the game to be so easily overlooked. The game itself might be a breath of fresh air, but from a marketing standpoint you'll have little luck convincing masses to play it.

Lummox JR
Feb 5 2006, 7:39 pm
It seems like you plug in your game name in the same sentence with "non rip" whenever you get the chance and everywhere else... Just so you know, there were way mroe original DB/Z/Gt games before your game appeared let alone before you even joined Byond, based off of your key creation date..
Feb 5 2006, 7:49 pm
In response to Mecha Destroyer JD
I do plug in my game in the same sentence with non-rip, because its not a rip, so I dont really see your point, and I have browsed the hub and seen most of the original ones.
Feb 5 2006, 8:05 pm
Who said anything about your game being put in with other "rips"? It's simply being put in <s>the garbage can</s> a channel with other "DB" games. So, if for some reason someone wants to play a "DB" game they know where to look, and if they don't, they know where not to look.
Feb 5 2006, 8:12 pm (Edited on Feb 5 2006, 8:23 pm)
In response to Digital Samurai
To quote Digital Samurai.
"Who said anything about your game being put in with other "rips"? It's simply being put in the garbage can a channel with other "DB" games. So, if for some reason someone wants to play a "DB" game they know where to look, and if they don't, they know where not to look."

...

Thats what I'm saying, it IS the garbage can, and my game DOES NOT BELONG there.

I swear to god, this is getting on my nerves with you biased people.

[Edit: The line across 'Garbage Can' obviously didnt copy, but I dont know that html tag so forget it.]
Feb 5 2006, 8:14 pm
In response to Mecha Destroyer JD
Mecha Destroyer JD wrote:
It seems like you plug in your game name in the same sentence with "non rip" whenever you get the chance and everywhere else... Just so you know, there were way mroe original DB/Z/Gt games before your game appeared let alone before you even joined Byond, based off of your key creation date..

How can you be more original than 100%??

Also Lummox, show me the rulebook on how to quote somebody, and I'll change it, but otherwise thats how I quote.
Feb 5 2006, 8:14 pm
In response to Dragonn
Dragonn wrote:
How can you be more original than 100%?

You can't, but since you're making a fan game, 100% originality is not possible.

Lummox JR
Feb 5 2006, 8:18 pm (Edited on Feb 6 2006, 5:28 pm)
In response to Lummox JR
Ok, from coding, to icons (not the turfs though), its completely original.

From a concepts point of veiw, its about 80/20, about 80% my ideas that I came up with, and about 20% DBZ's own concepts.

Average those two together and you get 90% original.

But another thing, every game on BYOND has something that was taken from another source, no matter where, or how unknown that source is. For instance, I dont know where the 'levelling up' a character concept came from, but its obvious that each of these games has a common source for using that, its got to have its roots back in the earliest days of gaming.

My game doesnt even use a levelling system, its far more complex and interesting that a mere system for gaining levels. How original is that? +5% originality there.
Feb 5 2006, 8:18 pm
In response to Dragonn
Garbage can? Who said anything about that? >_>
Feb 5 2006, 9:35 pm
That post is over two years old and doesn't mean anything anymore since the hub will be changing. [link]
Feb 6 2006, 7:01 am
In response to Dragonn
You say yours is 100% original huh? Whats up with the zeta trees then?0_0
Feb 6 2006, 11:24 am
In response to Dragonn
So why not just go with your own world? Why do you have to steal from DBZ?

A world of energy channeling mystics and powerful monks fighting against daemonic forces and cyber enhanced alien species bent on universal domination is far more interesting than yet another DBZ game.

Feb 6 2006, 5:24 pm (Edited on Feb 6 2006, 5:31 pm)
In response to Jmurph
Well, because I like DB/Z, I wanted to make a game out of it, so I did, and I can, and nobody should make a big deal out of it. Its my first game, I would like to see what all of YOUR first games were like because I'm sure they are no heavenly artwork either. And for my second game it probably will be something along the lines of people/monks or something who can manipulate energies of various types mixed with martial arts and roleplaying.

In fact, thanks for that idea because it sounds really cool.

But no matter what game I make, if it has people that shoot energy in it, the source for that is DBZ as far as I can tell, because thats the only place I have seen that done.

This is just speculation, but if I did make a game with the monks or whatever then I think we would still be talking about how it rips off DB/Z.
Feb 6 2006, 5:39 pm
In response to Dragonn
My first game sucked, yes, but it wasn't a fangame. That's the point.
Feb 7 2006, 10:59 am
In response to Dragonn
Dragonn wrote:
But no matter what game I make, if it has people that shoot energy in it, the source for that is DBZ as far as I can tell, because thats the only place I have seen that done.

I find statements like that annoying. Sure, there are so many games, movies, books and so on that hardly anything is actually completely new material anymore, but that doesn't mean that the source of it lies in something similar.

I have seen plenty of games in which people shoot energy, and some of them are older than DBZ. Heck, I have a game that is about 25 years old, an ancient PC game, in which you play as some guy that shoots energy at your enemies (that is, everything and anything besides yourself that moves).

The idea of mystic powers, be they energy-manipulation or otherwise, is as old as the hills.

That rant aside, if you are making a game feel free to borrow from anywhere you want. Many of the greatest ideas have been spawned from existing ideas and tweaked into something similar but with its own twist. When I DM RPGs or come up with story/game ideas, half the time my ideas were born of something I saw or read and changed into something new.

To take it a bit further, fangames can also be interesting, though usually they feel limited if they are made to be just like all the others or just like whatever it is based off. For instance, there are also plenty of Dragon Warrior games, and although some of them are decent I still feel like I'm playing the same old thing when I go from one to the other. That is why I decided to try my hand at my own Dragon Warrior game one time (not with Byond though), and I thought I'd change the style by making the combat Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat style. Imagine casting your spells and running your sword through slimes and green dragons in a fighter-style game. I thought the idea was awesome, but still it was a fangame, though based off of pre-existing ideas tossed together and twisted into something new. Of course, I never finished that project just like I have never finished any other project besides my single library (which I still have to update). But still, fangames are alright - just don't let the fact that it's a fangame squash your creativity.
Feb 8 2006, 11:47 am
In response to Jmurph
Jmurph wrote:
So why not just go with your own world? Why do you have to steal from DBZ?

Build Your Own Net Dream. =)

O-matic
Feb 8 2006, 11:51 am
In response to Lummox JR
Lummox JR wrote:
Ok, I've stated my side. And if any of this is taken into consideration my game is Dragonball Finale, named to signify that it is the end to all rips.

The release of one new non-rip, however good, will do nothing to end rips.

This I have to agree with, many DBZ-developers keep claiming that "my game will be a revolution in BYOND DBZ-gaming". It is always annoying to hear such things, as if one single game is going to dry up the Zeta-river.

As Xooxer said a while ago, things need to be done. One single game or person can't change it, but more can.

O-matic
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