Miran94 wrote:

Ok now whenever I play a rip I hinsestly don't care who make the rip but why do people hate them what so bad about them?????

Sorry, but I prefer to answer your question with another question. What is good about them? In any light, I can't see one thing good about them.

• They are fun.
• 
  It is interesting how one game could be fun when it's just the same as the original version and all other rips of its kind. If the original isn't still around, a likely reason is that the rip forced it out of existence via discouragement at all of their hard work being merely ripped and duplicated in an instant. Also, due to said discouragement, the game misses out on many possibilities of further 'fun' advancements, as the person who made the game initially and actually had the skill to add cool features would no longer be working on the project.
• They help newbie programmers make projects.
• 
  Unfortunately, they don't help in any way. As far as I know, 'helping' someone refers to doing something beneficial to them, and there are no benefits from ripping. The newbie programmer will more likely just use the same code with a few modifications, and not learn from it. More often than not, the code that was taken practiced poor programming techniques, and any learning that *does* happen results in said newbie programmer investing time into negative-learning. If said programmer truly wanted to learn, they would read through the DM Guide, read and learn from DM Demos, and eventually they may even be able to read through the more advanced DM Libraries. As well, they would learn to use the DM Reference (also found in DreamMaker) to solve many questions that they may have. Further questions could always be brought to Developer How-To or Code Problems, as appropriate. There is no reason to try and learn from a poorly programmed project, especially when the project wasn't intended to learn from, as are the aforementioned sources.
  
  In addition, by providing such a large crutch for a project, the EXACT same thing tends to clutter up the Hub very rapidly (why not, when 100 people can take the code, compile it, make a Hub page, and load it up?).

That's about all of the would-be positives of rips that I can even imagine being mentioned. Please, though, feel free to introduce me to any other ideas. :/

Hiead

Elation wrote:

The difference is that while ripped sources are poorly made with plenty of flaws, the aforementioned response has none of those properties.

if you insist...

They're clogging up the hub

the hub is not clogged. clogged would mean that the hub is not functioning properly because it has too many of these kind of games. every time i've wanted to put a game on the hub there was plenty of room. i've looked at the hub and used it plenty, if there's a clog i'm the last person to know.

causing new developers to learn bad coding habits

coding habits and methods of learning are things decided by the programmer. rips don't force bad habits upon people or force themselves upon people as the only learning material available. there are plenty of resources for learning DM that are easily found on the BYOND website.

they're not fun to play.

nuff said.

rips are poorly made games. poorly made games reflect, well, poorly on the community and paint a rather inaccurate picture of the developer side of BYOND. bad games make BYOND look bad, but whether there are rips or not people will always make bad games. that's what the unpublished section is for.

naruto is apparently popular around here and whether rips exist or not, there will be a lot of naruto games. if a web surfer stumbles upon the BYOND site and is scared off by the tons of naruto games, they'd be scared off whether the games are rips or not.

and the short version of that: rips are crappy games, crappy games are bad. to hate rips is to hate only a part of the problem without understanding what the problem really is.

the problem is also due to there not being that many new games

Well I feel thats because, possibly new developers are either scared off by the endless rant of rips,Or they stay & get sucked into the rips

FriesOfDoom wrote:

What you said above is like not letting a person sign up for a sport because of how they look, or how their work looks. Everyone gets better with more practice.

if i follow what you're saying, programming is the sport and something is denying people access to practice this sport. rips aren't doing that, they aren't doing anything. rips don't force people to make them, people choose to make rips. if people are choosing to make rips then by your analogy these people aren't even signing up for the sport.

many people don't realize the amount of work and thought required to make a game, but many of those people still want to make an awesome game. some of them will realize the amount of work needed and they will take time to learn DM and how to make games, but a lot of those people will look for the easiest way to make a game without actually trying. right now that easy way is by ripping a game, and its just a part of game making that you can't avoid whether these rips are seen on the hub or not. as long as its fashionable to have a programming team to make a simple game then you'll have source code getting out. if there were no games to rip, these people would find the next easiest way to make a game without trying. if these people can't motivate themselves to learn then you won't have much luck with it either.

OneFishDown wrote:

rips aren't doing that, they aren't doing anything. rips don't force people to make them, people choose to make rips.

The rips are doing something. They're trapping people who could become decent programmers in a rather crappy rut where they'll probably never learn anything more than how to copy and slightly modify a system.
Everyone looks for the easiest way to make a game/learn to program. I've never seen someone aware of an easier path take the harder one without a good reason. They do this regardless of how lazy they are.
With ripping presented as an acceptable way of developing games people often mistake the practice for a good way to learn. The offer of 'just use this full game and learn as you go' is just too good as bait. How are they to know that learning DM through ripping is about as sensible as reading books in Chinese to learn Japanese.

The only developers who rip that don't get harmed are the people who just want a game and have no real interest in programming. They're perfectly valid people. I don't want them gone from BYOND. I don't want to learn to juggle, so why would I force them to learn to program?
That said I'd rather they just hosted one of the hundreds of downloadable games. It's much easier, you don't even have to fix your own bugs.

I think what attracts people the most to rips isn't exactly the gameplay, because we all know the gameplay and everything else is just constantly repeated and repeated and repeated (going on and on and on), but it's the fact that the person sees this game he thinks is cool and he can be that Level 7 GM that is above the rest! OMGZ!! HOW COOL!!! Yeah... And what brings people to that game is the fact that the new "admin" doesn't code new things in, he/she just worries about making the players happy with items and such. It's basically a modified chatroom now.

DarkView wrote:

Everyone looks for the easiest way to make a game/learn to program. I've never seen someone aware of an easier path take the harder one without a good reason. They do this regardless of how lazy they are.

maybe everyone looks for the easiest way to make a game. but, if ripping is the easiest way then many people still choose to learn "correctly" instead of ripping. the reason for choosing a harder path is called motivation, and not everyone has it. if these people aren't motivated, i wouldn't bet on them making smash hit games if they hadn't been "trapped" by rips.