ID:152226
 
What elements makes an rts and rpg a good game?
RTS
-manageable troops
-intelligent troops
-realistic damage

RPG
-actual roleplaying
In response to Foomer
And what popped up in my mind when I read that.

"42"

As for the more serious answer, gameplay makes the game.
Always has and always will, for the real gamer that is.

I also think solid coding plays a big part in making a good way.
Whith that I meen, try look at things more in a "I eleminate the source of the problem" rather than "I fix the things the problem is causing" kinda way.
In an RTS, I think the most important quality is REAL strategy. Not micromanagement, more like macromanagement. Micromanagement, IMO, is the plague of most RTSs.
This is probably why I love Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander so much. :D
There's also World in Conflict, which does a great job of doing both things at the same time (not as much in the macromanagement department, because actual strategies have to be carried out by multiple members of the same team)
In response to Darkdemonrad
Darkdemonrad wrote:
RTS
-manageable troops
-intelligent troops
-realistic damage

RPG
-actual roleplaying

You don't have to roleplay in all RPGs.

Take Slacker RPG for example.
In response to RedlineM203
I was writing what I thought meant made a good RPG. I dislike slacker RPG. :-)
In response to RedlineM203
Yes, replying before reading the whole topic FTW.
In response to D4RK3 54B3R
I agree; micromanagement can really bog down a good game. Strategy != operational details. Most RTS games put you at a level comparable to a general. Does a general specify when each fireteam deploys their assault weapons or tosses grenades? No, command directs deployment, general behavior and set goals and leave it to the troops to do the actual fighting. That is why training is so important!

I also don't like that most RTS games don't make use of concepts like fields of fire, entrenchment/elevation, flanking vulnerability, suppression and cover fire, etc. If you are going to have detailed combat management, it should be about more than just bringing the most guns to the area.
In response to Jmurph
Jmurph wrote:
I agree; micromanagement can really bog down a good game. Strategy != operational details. Most RTS games put you at a level comparable to a general. Does a general specify when each fireteam deploys their assault weapons or tosses grenades? No, command directs deployment, general behavior and set goals and leave it to the troops to do the actual fighting. That is why training is so important!

I also don't like that most RTS games don't make use of concepts like fields of fire, entrenchment/elevation, flanking vulnerability, suppression and cover fire, etc. If you are going to have detailed combat management, it should be about more than just bringing the most guns to the area.

This is why that even in spite of my general disaffection for Real Time Strategy, I still like Firefight. I have yet to buy it because, like I said, I'm generally disaffected by RTS, but the game has all of the above features that Jmurph just mentioned.
In response to Jtgibson
In my personal opinion, too many of the games on BYOND lack something to hold the player in. Such as a plot or as previously mentioned, replay value.
Now, most games I see, such as the most popular ones on BYOND(Anime/Series, etc.) almost completely lack a plot beyond the plot from the Anime or series the game is based on. And since this plot is previously made from another source, it's still unincluded from the BYOND game.
This is not to say that games that don't have an origin from an unoriginal source are good in that sense either.
What I'm saying is that, the best games I've played have a great storyline to them, with a complicated plot(almost as though you're watching a movie) and many twists to the story or just a good over-all story.
This is not to say that gameplay isn't important though, as it plays the highest role in how fun the game really is when it comes to playing it.
Most RPG games(on BYOND) I see require you to sit around repetitively doing the same thing over and over to achieve a goal. (Such as hitting a punching bag) This is really boring and doesn't have any original or fun gameplay elements.
What if, instead of hitting a punching bag or killing random monsters over and over for the most of your time, the main way to gain exp was through doing quests or, otherwise, living the story as you play the game.
This is what I find most intriguing, though I'll understand how many will disagree.
Now, in comparison to actual modern video games, BYOND games are mostly crap, graphics aside. ANY video game you can buy today for the modern systems has some sort of plot within it that relates to the gameplay. Only the really old classics(in ATARI days) didn't have a story and are fun and even then some of the games in those times had some sort of storyline. Now, this also somewhat contradicts me as this proves also that gameplay is very important even without a plot.
This opinion doesn't apply to every aspect of a game, so take it lightly...
EDIT: Also on the note of micromanagement, I think micromanagement can be good, when looked at as a whole in some cases. For example, if you took more time on the minor details, many bugs could have been avoided. I mean game creators are causing Admins to have to moderate people using bugs that the creator, themself had caused. Also, having too many rules that have to be enforced is bad; you should be able to code in something that enforces your rules for you.:/ Even some things that can't be avoided and have to be enforced, such as what people type into text boxes can be coded enforced if you try. Trying to rely on your GMs to enforce every rule every second the game runs is bad for them and for your game as they get tired of enforcing and your game loses its rules.
Also, I suppose the big details do really matter a lot as they are what you focus on when you play, but micromanagement can be good sometimes, so I agree big details are good.
In response to Naokohiro
byond is better for multiplayer roleplaying games, having a plot would be nice. However having a good plot with detailed npc convo trees is sort of uhm, unrealistic when looking at the quality standard thusfar.
In response to Masterdan
Masterdan wrote:
detailed npc convo trees is sort of uhm, unrealistic when looking at the quality standard thusfar.

I had that in my last project. :P

What do "quality standards thusfar" have to do with anything?
In response to Foomer
Hmm I guess your question is like asking good ways to solve world hunger. There are many good things, but none of them seem to be perfect.

Of course there are many good things to be implemented into games(RPG, RTS in particular) that would make the games more enjoyable, but there really are no real secret formulae of elements that you can place into a game to make it an epic/fun/enjoyable game, just the basics to begin on.

From then on really I guess you can ask the general public, but still there is no such thing as a "perfect" game. Seeing as the people of this world have been implemented with an ability to form their own opinions... :S

Games like Halo are pretty popular, but even then people despise that game. Maybe because it's an FPS or maybe because they don't enjoy the way it's been made as an FPS. Same with many other games too.

Like I said all everyone can give you here is basics for a game. The basics that will make your game good, but not good enough. You then must make ideas. Ideas people might not like, but ideas people might like. It's sort of a gamble I guess. Unless of course you ask people first weather they like your idea or not. Then based on the general opinion you could then decide.

Anyways I think I kinda went off-topic her. Sorry :P

In my opinion a good game(RPG) has lots of skills to learn and quests to do. Just to really keep the player busy and having fun. By the way none of them generic quests please *sigh* the same old "Ohh my husband got killed! Can you kill 10 pigs and collect their noses for absolutely no reason!?"

Yea them sort of quests kind of get boring after awhile, ya know?

Anyways if you are making a game. Good luck!

*~Modulus