what is beyond #1 problem? its number one problem is that if you take a close look at the forums and type in coder in the forum search there are so many people asking for coders and nobody is responding.
What beyond needs is an program that may help others who are being ignored for an coder.
ID:183006
 Nov 21 2007, 3:38 pm
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I think you're bound to run into walls with any programming language. Otherwise there would be just one. I'd love the CGI to compatible with Windows. :D
Coding really isn't that difficult; it just requires a certain mentality. If you aren't determined enough to learn it or apply it or make the effort to evolve your knowledge of it, then why bother making a game. And besides, a universal 'coder' would just make everyone lazy. Forum search it... If no results, roll your sleeves up and experiment. F1 is some people's best friend when it comes to DM; using that, all you need to know is how to code with DM in general and you can work your way through it. | |
Foomer wrote:
Of course, the experienced developers might say that BYOND's #1 problem is too many stupid newbies who would rather rip code or have someone else make their game for them than actually learn to do anything themselves. Developers aren't the only ones who think that, players in general think that too. When I saw the topic I seriously thought the guy was just going to make some commentary about how rips are ruining BYOND. ...but uh, when you try to say "BYOND's #1 problem", it would help to start by laying out as many problems as possible before just looking at one problem and calling it the worst. Then again, with a little effort and workarounds, BYOND doesn't have too many problems. In my opinion, there aren't enough good games on BYOND. If the game is nothing but a level up system of either training or fighting monsters with no level cap, it's not a good game and there's too many of those. Rise of Heroes, Seika, FF:THG, Dragon Warrior: SoE, they're all fun to play for a while and pretty original at that but with no end result and nothing to do but level up, they cannot be considered good games. This is just one problem to lay out, I haven't thought of any "worst problem" though. Another, as it seems, is a flux of people who have trouble getting the BYOND software running properly (or rather, immediately). Once it gets running it's not a problem usually, but newcomers who don't know a thing about the BYOND software nor how it interacts with their computer might get driven away when it doesn't immediately work. It's more of an inconvenience than a problem though... | |
BYOND's number 1 problem is the way it is put together to be a community of a sort.
That also happens to be its greatest aspect, but we shall discuss that another time xD | |
GrimmJore wrote:
what is beyond #1 problem? The mentality of the community is BYOND's number one problem. The majority of the BYOND Developer Community is compromised out of wannabe-programmers who will use other people's work to appear cool in front of their friends and (see below) gullible players. The majority of the BYOND Player Community is compromised out of Anime players. They want to play a good anime game, but can't find any. They regularly complain about how poor the administration on most of the anime games is, although they don't care about them being rips. These players are scattered among anime games, and you will likely find them on servers where their friends either have administrative powers or are the owner of the game themselves. Then there's trolls within and slightly outside of the BYOND Community. I myself have contributed to acts of vandalism within BYOND, which I have paid dearly for in terms of reputation and trustworthiness. People such as XxDarkWizardxX are prone to attacking BYOND yet again, and BYOND Staff is somewhat helpless to stop this because in this world of the internet, changing your identity around is easily done, even if it only lasts you a few hours on BYOND. Plus, BYOND Staff don't have the required funds to be hunting everybody down the legal road, since they're too busy getting out of their own financial mess. At the moment an attempt is being made to remedy this problem, first by separating the different groups in the community into several guilds. The anime players, for instance, are being contained within the BYOND Anime guild. Previously they used to spam the hub with their games, now only about a dozen of them are on the Unpublished Games listing. Personally, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I think that keeping i.e. BYOND Anime away from other games is good, because there's no more spam. On the other hand, separating the community will make members of it narcissistic towards their own group, resulting in fights between the different groups on a much larger scale than could ever before be done. Whatever. This was just my dime on what the number one problem is, and already I'm in the process of escalating it into a discussion about whether or not it's good if the groups separate. I have one thought I'd like to feed in one another though: can't we just all get along? =) -- Data | |
Android Data wrote:
I have one thought I'd like to feed in one another though: can't we just all get along? =) Never!!! Mwahaha. I seriously wonder if many of those anime game makers first come up with the GM/Admin/Police system first and foremost, putting as many abilities they can so they finally get to be the boss for once. So they go to the Classified Ads with something along the lines of: "i am a louzy coder but i iz making a DBZ game called Dragon Ball: <insert random, mystic-sounding, poorly-translated Japanese phrase here>. i giv gm to whoevr can help me code. i cn make icons tho." I think all they really want is to be in that position where they are finally the head honcho. Then, they sit around with their crack team of coders and artists wondering what game they can make or rip to justify their newfound administrative powers, looking to bring people in just to be able to boss them around for once. It's moderator powers with a 'game' to boot! Then one member of the team decides to make off with the code, prompting a "Helpzorz, thai haz stolen mah codez" post on the Community or Creations board in the Developer forum. As if anyone really cares about yet another Naruto/DBZ game that has spawned from the abyss. This is about 85% of all such games. </ sadly, you know it's true> | |
If you really want to know what I think the absolutely true #1 problem is:
You look at languages like C++, Visual Basic, Perl or whatever - people make things out of them and publish them in whatever community they want. Hang out in a racing game community? Write a tool to customize cars in C++ and publish it on a racing game site. Hang out in a writing community? Make a tool written in Perl to count how often you use certain words and publish it in your writing community. That doesn't happen with DM. You create something with DM, you share it with the BYOND community. How many people ever write something in DM for any community besides the BYOND community? Does anyone? Probably not, because DM is designed to work best within its own community. That there is BYOND's #1 problem. | |
Foomer wrote:
You create something with DM, you share it with the BYOND community. How many people ever write something in DM for any community besides the BYOND community? Does anyone? Probably not, because DM is designed to work best within its own community. That there is BYOND's #1 problem. I wrote a URW Character Generator which I haven't yet released to the URW community, but which would be completely useless to the BYOND community. | |
Jtgibson wrote:
Foomer wrote: I'd like to see it released and hear how it goes over. | |
In my opinion, the BIGGEST problem on BYOND is people who say they want to code, but don't have the dedication, and smart-asses who make fun of new coders who need help(On forums). The community is BYOND's biggest problem, it's going from coders to gamers...
-Poal | |
Jtgibson wrote:
Foomer wrote: And there is BYOND Tabletop Gaming - winner of the first digitalBYOND contest for a gaming utility. I know it is used by a small group of people who are not really a part of this community, but initially joined so that they can use BTG. | |
Foomer wrote:
That there is BYOND's #1 problem. That just elaborates on what I already said; that the community is the problem, thus also pointing out you can't goto another community. -- Data | |
No. People need to learn to code on their -own- Is what the problem is.
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GrimmJore wrote:
what is beyond #1 problem? its number one problem is that if you take a close look at the forums and type in coder in the forum search there are so many people asking for coders and nobody is responding. I think you hit on something there, but you're right for the wrong reason so your solution is useless. The number of people who go around looking for a "coder" is indeed a problem, because each and every one of those people is being too lazy to bother learning anything themselves. BYOND boasts one of the easiest programming languages anywhere for people to pick up, but so many people want instant gratification they can't even be bothered to learn a little bit about it. BYOND is here for people to make their own games; it was never intended to cater to people who think their only contribution to a game should be the idea behind it, who have no inclination to program it themselves. There are lots of resources for people who can't find a coder, as long as they're willing to become one themselves. There's the DM Guide, DM Reference, the Dream Makers guild, Bwicki, tutorials, and some very good demos and libraries they can use. But for people who don't want to bother learning anything, we definitely do have a shortage of resources for them. It's partly intentional. Lummox JR | |
The problem is that most of the owners asking for a programmer for their game don't actually add any value to the team themselves.
If you want people to help you, or you want to help out another team, you need to have at least one quality that will benifit the team. You need to be one of the following: Programmer Artist Musician Web Developer Investor Host Nobody cares if you're one of the following: Game Designer Writer Level Designer Owner Moderator There are a few cases where they will want one of the latter, but that is almost never the case. You need a trade skill or you need to have assets, not just a knack for creativity. Why should they program your game when they have just as many ideas as you and you're not going to help out at all? Personally, I have no trouble at all finding people interested in helping out my team. Why? Because I have skills myself and I have a track record. It's still difficult, though, because it's rare that you'll find someone who wants to work for free on someone else's project unless they're really excited about the project. | |
We need more napkins.
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There are ample resources on BYOND for people who want to learn to program and are willing to look for them.