Jan 8 2008, 5:14 pm
In response to The Magic Man
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Tubutas
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Res Sickness, Waiting before fight period, Hospitalization. In real life you die thats it. I think there should also be a pointless killing penalty(griefers),Like in .hack PKers get hunted down and lose there stuff upon death.
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"Like in real life" is possibly one of the worst rationalizations behind game design decisions ever.
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So you're telling me that games have a problem of people killing themselves for fun? Seriously? That's a problem?
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No, realism has precisely frankfurter to do with roleplaying. I'd also say that anything referred to as "RP" also has the same amount to do with roleplaying.
If realism DID have anything to do with roleplaying, then would you care to explain why 9 out of 10 "role-playing games" are, in fact, set in a wholly unrealistic setting, IE: "swords and sorcery"? What you perhaps were TRYING to say is that consistency is an important part of immersion, and this is true. Something does not have to be realistic to be consistent, however. And, of course, there's the fact that realism is NOT FUN. There's a reason people are playing GAMES, here. | |
Garthor, give it a rest. Everyone knows what you are saying, apperently a lot of people disagree. I have also made my own decision on how death is going to be handeled.
From a new standpoint, from a early level players are going to just die and then respawn. After so many levels, when a person dies, they will become a ghost, who need to travel back to their corpse. They will have a time limit to get to their body, if they do not get to their body within a time limit, their corpse will rot. If players are too lazy to travel back to their body, a spirit guide will revive them for free, but their body will rot right away. When a player's body rots away, they take a negative bonus to their current exp (to next is always 1000 anyways). And they loose a very small percent of their money. As long as the player dosen't die like 20 times in 10 mins, they should be able to easily make it back. | |
That's not new in the slightest. It's a crappy amalgamation of World of Warcraft and Everquest. It also has the fun bonus of trying to force players to continue playing. IE: if you die, you cannot log off unless if you want to be penalized. Way to go.
What's with this War on Fun you seem to be championing? | |
Garthor, just look at roguelike games and etc. Permadeath is common there, and yet they have a playerbase.
Also, you say realism is not fun... says who? The point in a roleplay is to assume a role that is not the same as you live - whether a realistic role or not. Whether it be single-player roguelikes or such MMORPGS as Diablo II, permadeath is a desirable attribute to certain players. Sure, in the long run, it may not be the most popular means of doing things, but depending on the developer and the playerbase said developer is looking for, permadeath can be a very good aspect of the game, if done well. | |
Garthor wrote:
What's with this War on Fun you seem to be championing? Just because you don't find it fun does not mean there aren't others who don't want that in a game. Besides, having your player die is not supposed to be fun. | |
Jamesburrow wrote:
Garthor, just look at roguelike games and etc. Permadeath is common there, and yet they have a playerbase. Roguelikes are the antithesis of a multiplayer game. Also, you say realism is not fun... says who? The point in a roleplay is to assume a role that is not the same as you live - whether a realistic role or not. Says the fact that you're playing a game and not participating in reality. Whether it be single-player roguelikes or such MMORPGS as Diablo II, permadeath is a desirable attribute to certain players. Those would be the insane ones. Sure, in the long run, it may not be the most popular means of doing things, but depending on the developer and the playerbase said developer is looking for, permadeath can be a very good aspect of the game, if done well. You're right. It's a totally stupid mechanic that only the most insane people enjoy. | |
Jamesburrow wrote:
Garthor wrote: Exactly! Now you're getting it! Besides, having your player die is not supposed to be fun. "Supposed to" is another goddamn moronic design catchphrase. You can justify ANYTHING by claiming that's how it's "supposed to be." WHY is dying not supposed to be fun? Did God descend down from heaven and present you with a couple stone tablets with "DEATH IN GAMES SHOULD NOT BE FUN" scrawled on them? | |
Death isn't supposed to be fun because that is the exact anti-thesis of the point in most games ((The exception being that game on the Adult Swim site where you win if you kill yourself)).
If x is the opposite of goal y, then x should not be fun. | |
But if death in your game is fun... then why stop players from enjoying it? I mean, if your actual GAME is fun, then you'd think that there'd be no need to make death artificially LESS fun because people would rather be playing the game ANYWAY.
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Hardly. I can't speak for everyone, but in my game I want my players to use their heads to avoid death.
If death did not it's have punishments, they would have no reason to do so. | |
So you're claiming that, without a penalty for death, your players would spend all their free time running up to the nearest dragon and getting eaten?
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Of course not. Rather that I want to use death and other such functions to ensure the players keep the focus I want them to have.
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Most games aim to be as realistic as possible. Now tell me, if I came up to you with a gun and threatened to kill you, would you care? Of course you would. If you died, you'd cease to exist. By incorporating some type of punishment for death, you make the game more realistic in the fact that death is not fun in real life, so why should it be in a realistic game?
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Then why is there a huge thread dedicated to solving a problem that doesn't even exist?
And, another good question: why are you attempting to force your players to only play in a specific way? Why not let them have fun in whichever manner is fun to them? | |
Hahaha. Oh man. I've never played a single game that was even remotely realistic.
Take your typical RPG for example, it has monsters and magic, and 99% of the gameplay elements in them are totally exaggerated, or not realistic at all (combat is a good example, you can survive hundreds of sword slashes in a RPG and even world destroying attacks, and simply quaffing down a potion will heal everything! REALISTIC IF I EVER SAWED IT!) Anyway, as I said. If you design and make your game in a decent way then death will not be fun. If I person for example has spent hours fighting their way through a dungeon only to be killed near the end of it, or they have nearly completed a quest only to die and fail that quest, THAT IS NOT FUN. And funnily enough, it is more than enough of a punishment if you ask me. Games that force other types of punishment on players, such as losing items or exp generally tend to focus heavily on combat and leveling up, so things like dying after spending hours going through a dungeon or failing a quest because you got killed simply don't apply, usually because they lack these features in the first place. Personally, I'd rather play a well designed game where dying was it's own punishment than some grindan gaem that forces other types of punishment on a player for dying! But you know, that is just me, and grinding is probably the thing I hate most about online RPGs (or any game in general). The only thing I hate more than grinding is losing what I grinded for because the game handles death in a stupid way that makes me lose those things when I do die! | |