Does anyone know of any twitch-based (i.e., not EVE) spacecraft-oriented online multiplayer RPGs? I played EVE for a bit but ultimately it just can't hold my interest. Hardwar is tempting but I get the feeling I'd get fragged every 15 seconds on it.
The perfect game would be the combat of something like Freelancer or Tachyon with the economic model and scale of an X game. I'm surprised one doesn't already exist, but I guess that there isn't much of a market for a game that mixes the two ideas - people who like MMORPGs play MMORPGs, people who like actiony-twitch based combat play actiony-twitch based combat games.
ID:182365
 Jul 30 2008, 12:51 pm
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I don't think you're going to find an action MMORPG set in space, for a very specific reason, as logically derived below:
1) Space shooters are a "niche market". The probability that a random player will play a space shooter is low. 2) Space roleplaying games are a "niche market". The probability that a random player will play a space RPG is low. 3) The probability that two independent events will both be experienced is equal to the multiplication of both probabilities. Given that a probability is a fraction between 0 and 1, this reduces the probability of both events occurring. 4) Therefore, the probability that a person plays both a space shooter and a space roleplaying game is a fraction of the probability of playing either one by itself. In short, if a developer wants to cater to a niche market within a niche market, they're going to have a tough time selling to investors. CCP wound up publishing their own game, almost certainly because they could not find a willing publisher, but they're a rare success. Competing with them would also be difficult, as an MMORPG must monopolise its player's time; otherwise the player will generally migrate to the game he/she likes more in an effort to consolidate their monthly fees. (Granted, this isn't exactly how it works, since a well-thought-out mixture of both genres is in effect its own game. But good luck convincing an investor of that. =)) | |
Jtgibson wrote:
4) Therefore, the probability that a person plays both a space shooter and a space roleplaying game is a fraction of the probability of playing either one by itself. ...Amusing indeed Gibson, =P but this ain't simple math. | |
Jumpgate Evolution.
It's still in development though. | |
I've been waiting for something like this since like, forever. Accessibility and controls of Freelancer (which is an epic game, regardless of its flaws, hilarious conversation generator*, etc.), with the dynamic overworld of something like Eve Online (and yeah, like you, I tried and hated Eve Online.).
* "new here?" "CHECK!" | |
Unfortunately, for the publishers, it is all math.
You look at it from the gamer's perspective, which cares about the game. A developer tends to care about the game as well, unfortunately the big publishers and companies only look at what comes after the dollar sign. | |
Not really my point, just that he was calculating it from a barebones math perspective. From a logical perspective, one could easily say a multiple-genre game would make more money because it appeals to a wider variety of players. eg: Some people like MMORPGs a lot, but aren't all that interested in space games, and there are people vice-versa. Then if your game has both genres it has the potential for more players.
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Kaioken wrote:
Not really my point, just that he was calculating it from a barebones math perspective. From a logical perspective, one could easily say a multiple-genre game would make more money because it appeals to a wider variety of players. eg: Some people like MMORPGs a lot, but aren't all that interested in space games, and there are people vice-versa. Then if your game has both genres it has the potential for more players. Not to mention that a lack of many of these games existing gives them the chance to corner the market. I play a lot of FPS's, and I play a lot of RPG's. I would be surprised if less than 70% of hardcore FPS players didn't also play RPGs on the side. I wonder what's holding the market back, because I don't think it's opportunity. The only thing that pops to mind is network: how powerful would a server and connection have to be to support twitch-level speed, and MMORPG player numbers? WOW has plenty of lag moments, and it gets plenty of players killed. Now imagine it without automatic attacking... and with crashing. They would need to invest a hefty sum into servers, or create a game model with smaller server sizes (like Dungeon Siege, maybe) | |
I'm sorry, but I understood your point. You did not understand mine. JT was looking at it from the publisher's perspective.
Twitch based space games are rare, and the players are equally as rare, but fanatic. MMOs are numerous, and the players are equally as numerous and fanatic. However, the fact that it is an MMO isn't going to sell the idea to a publisher, and the fact that it is a twitch based space game, is likely to turn off a publisher. Publishers are the ones who basically make it possible for a game to come out on the market. There's no getting around the fact that you need funding, and generally, setting up shop on your own is risky, time-consuming, and generally does not succeed. The point that you missed in my post, was the above point: That publishers look at it like JT. They only care about the dollar sign, and not the game itself. If it's just like WoW, you have yourself a contract, but if it's too different, a company probably won't take the risk. Simply put, the publishers see it from a raw mathematical standpoint, while you see it from the player standpoint. A lot of hardcore Twitch Space games will be turned off by the fact that it IS an MMO, and a lot of hardcore MMO fans will be turned off by the fact that it is Twitch based, as a lot of MMOs are not suited for that genre, because of input-action lag. He did not look at the success of the game from a raw math standpoint, if you read his post, you can see he was looking at it from the publisher's standpoint. | |
Ter13 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I understood your point. You did not understand mine. JT was looking at it from the publisher's perspective. The case seems to be the opposite. I understood what you were saying, however more potential players == more money (reread my post for further detail, which should be unneeded), but I don't know what publishers want or if it's not money, or how they think. I wonder if you really do, though? | |
Kaioken wrote:
Jtgibson wrote: Jtgibson also wrote: (Granted, this isn't exactly how it works, since a well-thought-out mixture of both genres is in effect its own game. But good luck convincing an investor of that. =)) When a game enters a "niche" category, that instantly means "divide your potential player base by 10". If it caters to two niche markets, in that you have to like both niches to play, or at least not be turned off by the other niche enough not to play, that's another order of magnitude. If I were in the industry, that's exactly how I'd see it -- especially because I've had first-hand experience with how badly a space game can exceed its original scope and become a money-sucking mess. If Interstellar Inc. were a for-profit venture, and I were a publisher, I'd have cut the dev team and cancelled the project a long time ago in order to avoid hemorrhaging any more money -- or worse, forced them to commit to a release of the product in its existing state, totally destroying the dev team's reputation and forcing them back into their collective jobs at Arby's. An interesting exercise: name space-related games released within the last few years. There's Mass Effect... and... er... Well, Sins of a Solar Empire might count, but that's indie... Hrm... In short, as an investor would put it, "I think you have something here, but we'd prefer to see something a little more developed before we commit to a funding deal". Or in English, "Get realistic, this won't make us money." | |
There are an increasing number of twitch based MMORPGs coming out, actually. First ones being Neocron and Planetside (MMOFPSs with RPG Elements), Vendetta Online (Dogfighting space mmo), then DDO (Kind of ironic that an Dungeons and Dragons game is somewhat twitch based), and then followed by Tabula Rasa (Supposedly tactical shooter MMO. It wasn't though), Jumpgate Evolution, Stargate Worlds, and countless others. Sure, a number of these are still in development, but they're due to be released soon.
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Never said anything about twitch-based MMORPGs -- I was more specifically referring to twitch-based space games, which are still extremely rare.
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I remember doing a search for a game similar to Eve and these and I believe one did show up but it was in development and I cannot recall it's name, good luck searching and be sure to tell us all it's name if you find one so we can join in.