Hulio-G wrote:

P.S. I'd buy. I personally think $10-20ish seems reasonable. *Shrugs*

Refresh my memory, how much does it cost to get a book printed on mass? Not to mention shipment of said books. You'd have to think that printing and postage per item would cost around $10.00 - $20.00 (more for international customers). So BYOND's not really making money here...

The purpose of the idea is to bring money back to BYOND. I can walk into a local book shop, and I'll be lucky if I can find any non-outdated programming book for under $60.00.

$50.00 USD (~$65.00 AUD) is a good enough price for me and should cover any printing costs nicely.

Bragging Rights wrote:

But really go to Amazon before you buy elsewere, great prizes and offers.

Credit Cards and me don't share a wallet.

@Tiberath wrote:

$50.00 USD (~$65.00 AUD) is a good enough price for me and should cover any printing costs nicely.

I left that emote there to show I wasn't too sure, though you actually make alot of sense. But, this coming from that man. I cant say the irony doesn't make me chuckle. ;p

@Kuraudo

I would probably be scared off by this. These $30 how-to books that are bright and colorful never seem to have the quality of other programming books. Regardless of the age group of most of BYOND's users, it would be a shame to see the official manual to DM turn out like those "Learn Programming for Teens!" books, and that ultimately would turn off older, more mature users. A more professional book, though, might be able to attract new older programmers.

I'm leaning more to the target audience comment Stephen made. Who said older/proffessional coders like boring looking stuff? AC Wraith likes color, Post [link]. I can't imagine someone thinking with that kind of logic; "I will not read this because it doesn't look boring".

@ Bragging Rights
I somewhat agree with your "kidified" blue book but I thought Kaioken joke was funny, loosen up.

Tiberath wrote:

Are you saying my living situation can't change in well over a year?

I figured because you were once not making so much money you'd sympathize with people who might not be as fortunate to use that kind of cash.

But you had your reasons for saying what you did. I just didn't think you'd be one to say it. And I don't really disagree to be honest, though I like some of the posts that range around $35.

Tiberath wrote:

Sympathy is as sympathy does, not everyone can afford a membership, it doesn't mean the price should be lowered. Fact is, when push comes to shove, if people are that desperate, someone will buy it for them at sometime or another.

Memberships are one thing. But there's probably only one guy on byond that would donate $50 dollar bluebooks. >.>

Tiberath wrote:

Fact of the matter is, if BYOND wants to use this to make money, they're going to have to charge something more than the absolute bare minimum (or break even) cost to help their profits push them further into the next decade.

I agree if BYOND was pretty wealthy right now and could risk throwing books for an actual expensive amount like that. BUT
its better to make some profit from many than big profit per book from a few.

And parents are more willing to spend $20-$35 for a book instead of the crazy $50 your using for example. And they can always release diferent books, beginner,intermidiate,advanced,etc.

Overall its a good startegy that will target everybody.

Bragging Rights wrote:

Tiberath wrote:

Fact of the matter is, if BYOND wants to use this to make money, they're going to have to charge something more than the absolute bare minimum (or break even) cost to help their profits push them further into the next decade.

I agree if BYOND was pretty wealthy right now and could risk throwing books for an actual expensive amount like that. BUT
its better to make some profit from many than big profit per book from a few.

And parents are more willing to spend $20-$35 for a book instead of the crazy $50 your using for example. And they can always release diferent books, beginner,intermidiate,advanced,etc.

Overall its a good startegy that will target everybody.

Perhaps it's just a difference in country talking. $35.00 USD comes to about ~$46.00 AUD. But considering I've made the trip to the big city numerous times, and whenever I've seen programming books, I've rarely (if at all) seen them for under $50.00 and almost never for $25.00 - $35.00. That kind of price is generally reserved for shoddy second hand books.

And the price I'm suggesting isn't crazy at all if you think about it. The guide as it is at the moment, is a basics scrape through. I doubt it even mentions half the functions the language has, not to mention good interface design techniques and tips and tricks for accomplishing specific things.

If the guide was to be rewritten by those in the know, I'm fairly sure they'd put as much time and effort as they could into it. Which means going from the basics to the advanced. So you'd be looking at the very basic of chat rooms (mob/verb/say(msg as text) world << "[src.name]: [msg]") to some fairly advanced program/application designs.

Hell, a chapter on interfaces alone would probably be fairly large. You'd also want to cover usr and src, when and where to place it. The better most of the programming articles in Dream Makers would probably also be a good thing to interweave.

The current guide as it is, sure, $20.00 - $30.00 seems reasonable. But that's because you're peddling a now... seven year old book with very seldom updates? You'd also have to take into account work. Very few (if any) people would be willing to rewrite the guide without some kind of compensation for their efforts.

Tiberath wrote:

Refresh my memory, how much does it cost to get a book printed on mass? Not to mention shipment of said books(...) So BYOND's not really making money here...

Since shipping varies a lot with countries, I was under the impression that everyone stated the bare prize, shipping excluded. Else it would be impossible to "compare".

The more you have printed, the less it's going to cost per book, which needs to be considered.
So a cheaper book might be sold more often and have less cost per book than an expansive one.

Sadly enough, BYOND is no monopol on the market, so watching the offers your competitor has in store might be a reasonable marketing decission.

Game Maker's Guide


Tiberath wrote:

The purpose of the idea is to bring money back to BYOND.

I disagree, or at least partly.
There are more benefits that book could achive than an instant money flush and that have to be considered.

• In the long term, such a book should be aimed to increase the general (average) quality of games on BYOND, thus attracting more customers (and more money)
• A book always makes a neat sidenote on a press release
• It might come in handy when people/students show BYOND to their friends/colleagues/teacher
  
  I agree that the cost needs to be covered, I think that about 5$ profit per book should be the highest to reach for though.
  
  
  As for people willing to help, I'm not that sure if you wouldn't find two or three that'd write a suggestion-chapter free of charge and be it just to be mentioned *winks*.

A nicely designed downloadable PDF document/book costs next to nothing to make, can be updated easily, adds certain features like searching, and allows people to kill trees by printing the book if they chose to.

digitalmouse wrote:

A nicely designed downloadable PDF document/book costs next to nothing to make, can be updated easily, adds certain features like searching,

At the moment its best since there is no major jump on the language, it would be like catching a moving ball right now. But in the near future,BYOND 5? A nice book to go along with it would be nice.

and allows people to kill trees by printing the book if they chose to.

Why not go on an all out masacre!? =D