Apr 19 2009, 1:18 am
In response to Amjh
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Trosh Kubyo
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I already looked at the Wiki, the tiles are ugly as hell.
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Trosh Kubyo wrote:
I already looked at the Wiki, the tiles are ugly as hell. Even 16bit sprites would be fine. | |
I don't count incomplete sets. Right now, none of the sets are fully complete, you usually have to mix and match the sets, which set up a rather ugly set up.
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To be honest, there was too much crap going on at the screen at any one given time. And there were too many ASCII characters to try and keep track of. The whole screen seemed a mess to me. Then, at least last time I downloaded it, there was a complete lack of any sort of guide or walk through. Dwarf Fortress seems like a complex game and it would have been very nice if they had a tutorial mode or something to get players into the hang of it. You're just not awesome enough, clearly. :P More seriously, I actually hate those DF tilesets with a burning passion. The game is far easier to play in its normal mode, without having to worry about some of the characters being replaced showing up in text. And given the amount of things in the game that have to be replaced by one icon, you're still going to be using 'v' and looking at what it is, rather than relying on the tileset. They just make the game uglier. Honestly, I've never had issues figuring out what's going on. When I was first playing DF (Back in the 2D days), I certainly had to check what things were all the time, but that was more distinguishing between goblin and groundhog, rather than distinguishing between line noise and world. As I've played it, I've gotten better at figuring out what's going on to the point that I barely even see the characters any more. Lack of an inbuilt tutorial is a more serious issue, particularly given how complicated the game is compared to... well, any other game I can think of, ever. But there's plenty of stuff on the 'net to help you out, and it's not that tricky - I figured it out on my own, so I'm pretty sure you can, too. The ASCII graphics are a nonissue, really. The amount of effort that would go into making it graphical ala, say, Castle of the Winds, would be better spent making the already awesome gameplay more awesome (Like the upcoming update. Functioning healthcare! Improved military! Cool underground stuff! New body-part system!). It'd take a lot of effort to present all the information the ASCII presents with graphics. (No, really, think about it. All the colour changes - things get a flashing purple background when they're wrestling, brown means they're lying down, flashing + means they're injured, tiles can be red (for blood), blue (for ichor), green (for vomit), brown (for mud) or combinations of the above (And they're not simply additive). Tiles flash blue when it's raining. When it snows, tiles exposed to the elements turn white - including coloured furniture exposed to the snow. And all the cases where more than one thing is on the same tile? They're handled much more elegantly in ASCII than they ever could be in graphics. This idea that graphical-tilesets > ASCII is really on the same level as the idea that 3D > 2D. For some applications, yeah. But it's definitely not universal in any way. | |
I am sorry, but I disagree. I feel that it would be much easier to identify something, or even try to assume something based on how it looked graphically based on a sprite. Snow, puke, rain, sitting down, all of these could easily be done with sprites and be much more identifiable then a flashing "i" on the screen.
All I am saying is that DF really could be a marketable game, if they wanted to seriously crack down on it and make it something everyone would be willing to play - and that would mean getting rid of the ASCII, or at least, having other options. | |
I finally got around to playing DF. I have to say, I didn't like how it was. I consider it confusing for beginners and quite tiring on the eyes.
That all and said it is a marvelous game, just needs better graphical representation (it can always be an option to revert to ASCII) and a tutorial in order for new players to not be turned away. George Gough | |
Secret of Mana, you'd be surprised how lil known Seiken Densetsu II (SoM's Japanese Name) is... despite it being so darn epic XD
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digitalmouse wrote:
ROTT - Rise of The Triad That takes me back. I couldn't have been more than nine or ten when I first started playing modem games of that with my neighbour. Codename Eagle Now that was also a fantastic game. Pity it was pretty easy. I remember playing multilayer of that, people would shoot my planes out of the sky with tanks. I could never do it =( | |
All I am saying is that DF really could be a marketable game, if they wanted to seriously crack down on it and make it something everyone would be willing to play - and that would mean getting rid of the ASCII, or at least, having other options. Well I doubt the author is even trying to make a game everyone would be willing to play rather working on something he enjoys. Last thing I'd want is for the game to be dumbed down and mutilated to appeal to the masses. That's why the professional game industry as a whole has gone to crap releasing flashy titles with nothing to them just to push the video card limits to appease the most people to net the greatest profits to cover the silly costs that went into making all those pointless over the top flashy graphics. But I'm pretty sure you didn't mean going that far. However an improved interface and display options is in the plan for version 1. http://bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_v1.html I just imagine he's getting all the gameplay stuff solid and in place first before he worries about a snazzy UI. Since if he did that now it'd have to be updated and maintained for any changes in gameplay that need to be represented by it which would be a lot of extra work for something I'm sure the current playerbase isn't too concerned over. ASCII graphics are much more useful in a complex game because they are unique and easily identifiable. Which is very important when you have a very complex and dynamic game state to convey. The only issue is that it takes extra time to figure out what each symbol means since it's not always obviously apparent. If you aren't willing to play simply because of ASCII graphics and a steep learning curve that actually requires some effort on your part then it is obviously not the game for you. | |
He isn't saying that DF isn't fun. It is. The main thing he said is that it could be marketable and bring much more appeal to new players by having a slightly better interface and possibly a consistent tileset aside from the ASCII.
George Gough | |
Koei's Liberty or Death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_or_Death_(video_game) I wouldn't be motivated nearly as much as I am in the politics I choose to follow if I hadn't discovered that game when I was really young. I was 8 years old when it came out. Heck, I learned how to use dos prompt just so I could install it and play it. I never forget that Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty, or give me death", because that's how a new game opened up, in all of its pixelated glory. The John Adams mini-series heralded me back to that game and the countless hours I would spend, crushing my little brother, who naively assumed the Americans would be easier to play since, after all, they won the war. | |
Mole Mania - GB: I have never met another soul who has played this game. I found the puzzles fun, even if they got redundant.
Einhander - PS: While this was produced by video game giant, Squaresoft (at the time), I have only met two people who have played this. This definitely the best side-scroll shooter I have ever played. | |
Yeah, Bahamut Lagoon was made by Squaresoft too. It was only released in Japan which is why few people know of it.
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Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon for N64
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Fugsnarf wrote:
Crystalis- Very old game for NES. This game might be more popular than it seems to me, but this was probably my second favorite RPG on the NES excluding Final Fantasy. Incredible game for its time. You are my hero. Crystalis was an amazing game, a very solid and fun RPG for the time - it could have used a little more optional stuff (I think the only truly optional things in the game were a few shields and armors, the leather boots, and the warrior ring), aside from that the game was highly quality and I've replayed the entire game at least two dozen times. Already mentioned above by a very smart man, Blast Corps for Nintendo 64 was an incredibly depthy game with a TON of replayability. I spent AGES trying to get Platinum in Diamond Sands and Venus. Great game. Space Station Silicon Valley for the 64 was also a winner - incredible game concept. You're a chip, you climb into robotic animals and gain their powers. You can switch animals whenever you disable (faint, kill, defeat, etc.) a new one, with good puzzle solving as well as some action play, and even a little bit of a platformer/3D exploration element. Golden Sun series for GBA was a good time and a decent storyline. Some interesting concepts present in these games as well. Light dude wrote: Chrono Trigger - SNES game; it gets pricey on eBay and Amazon.com. Fortunately, Nintendo re released it for the DS. Also, is there any person who played this game and not liked it? This person is me. I believe Trigger is quite possibly one of the most over-rated RPGs of all time - I just didn't care for it, and I love most every RPG ~Polatrite~ | |
Silent Bomber - I have wanted to play the full version of this game FOREVER. I was ten when I played the demos and I loved the demos. I don't remember much; just a bunch of bomb and napalm and replaying it a bagillion times.
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Ive have two games that were were pretty awsome.
some of you guys probably heard or i dont kno if you guys mentioned this one legend of legaia the first one was incredible and fun i didnt feel the second one cause it lacked some elements that was in the first (dont you just hate that -_-) but overall their was some new elements i did like about the second one like the variable arts system and some of the other arts ,any way legaia one still kicks legaias 2's ass any day.Legaia was one of my first rpgs then it was FF lol.Play the first one I highly recomned it.Tobia NO.1 I discovered by accident ,thinking it was some type of new dbz cause of akiras art style on the front of the cover i would say that this game is unknown also very old ... but back then I gave the game a chance seeing that it was made by squaresoft I like the unique fighting styles and grapple attacks also there werent any like magical attacks really which really suprized me squaresoft is all about the razzle dazzle I would recomned this game but i doubt youll find it anywhere lol. | |
oh sorry for double posting XD..but I just remember this one its not unknown its more forgotten Dino Crisis for sega Dream cast and Shenmue lol I miss those games ....hint hint Falacy you should make a Dino Crisis for byond lol...surprised they havent made a movie yet.....<__< ok ill just hush lol.
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Tiberath wrote:
Stephen001 wrote: I personally use Simutrans: http://simutrans.sourceforge.net/ It still updates fairllyyy often. Games that I liked which were often unknown include: Shining Force: Its mega popular in the UK, but often didn't see much success in the US, which often meant PAL versions got even less copies. Shining Force 3 was only released with 1/4 of the full game (ie: part1) in english, with Japan being the only place where all parts were produced. Camelot got kicked off the Shining team after SF3 for doing Golden Sun on GBA, Sega apparently got upset that they chose to work for a competetor's machine and ended up being their loss. Panzer Dragoon Saga: While the first PD game have been ported to PC, and the first two fairly known and well liked, Saga the third and final Sega saturn game had a hell of a lot of work put into it, but only saw thousands produced in english. It is possibly one of the rarest modern games around, even rarer than SF3 and is so beautiful it is truely a work of art. I would never get rid of this game, and hope it survives. Ring of Red: a PS2 game which did alternative history fairly well; something not tried very often and not very well done. Its only problem was its aweful repettivness. Its story includes a WW2 situation in which Japan was never nuked. The result ended up that Japan came under a similar situation as Germany, half being under allied occupation, and half under Soviet Union. Other stuff happens, such as the Soviet Union being kicked out (but still having a Communist government), and a civil war between the two sides starting. Walking mechs become the new tanks, developed over the need for Armour that can deal with Japans rough terrain. It also deals with Germany in a lot of detail; and although its not actually mentioned in the english version (but can largely be assumed from his appearence and the games script) your CO of the Western backed side happens to be an ex-Nazi commander who fled to escape war crimes trials; adding extra dimentions to the story. The main character is also a mixed race son between a German and a Japanese adding to some of the irony of German-Japanese involvement both before in the real world WW2 history and of the alternative history that the game creates. The last one has to be Galaxian on the Atari 2600. :p | |
