I would go as far to say that there should be a sticky in tutorials or a forum of the like about post-development needs. Marketing needs to be given a spotlight, poor marketing for the games means poor traffic for BYOND.
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I can think of a couple of reasons for this.
First and most obviously, for a very long time (and even now) it has been difficult to disassociate a game made with BYOND from the BYOND website/community. People needed to download BYOND and register with it and so on. It's not crazy for the average BYOND user to think BYOND games have to be tied to BYOND when it's been like this for so long. Second is quality. Lets not sugar coat it, most BYOND games are ass. When I look back at some of the stuff I've made with BYOND, I realize the reason I kept it in BYOND is because I'd be too embarrassed to show it anywhere else. This is partly my fault, and partly the BYOND software's fault. Who wants to take the effort to advertise something people will laugh at or insult? Finally, this is kind of related to the above two. BYOND just does not have a very good reputation. As I've moved to other communities that make games, using other software and even real languages, I've realized more and more than if you even mention BYOND you're going to get laughed at. (Even Spacestation 13, the most popular BYOND game probably ever is being remade outside of BYOND because people simply do not like BYOND) Put all this together, and what you get is that most BYOND games are only really accepted within the BYOND website and community. I'm not saying games couldn't be accepted outside of BYOND, but it's not strange that most people simply don't bother trying to be accepted anywhere else. | |
I've always felt that it was self explanatory. Space Station 13 is categorized in a genre that has yet to be touched outside of BYOND. It is essentially a sandbox space [station] game. Many gamers love space and many love sandbox games. Put two and two together and you'll get a successful* game.
I'm personally a fan of the game and while it there is a slight learning curve to the interface, I don't feel that the game is as horrible as many tend to over exaggerate. * In BYOND terms | |
The Magic Man wrote:
I can think of a couple of reasons for this. I think you really hit the nail on the head with your post, in the most painful crucifying way :D One thing though, you said that your junky noob games were partially your fault, and partially BYOND. Are you talking about the limitations of the system? I've always thought the noobie games (mine included) were all bad because of the graphics and code problems. Which is completely forgivable - during early learning one cannot be expected to produce beautiful icons and solid programming. BYOND is obviously limited, but people are still willing to play 2d games. Especially if they are in a browser or on a mobile device... | |
I always hear stuff like "it's byond fault" when ever things don't work in their games or god forbid it lags.
What exactly are byond's issues/limitations? Don't get me wrong there are some- but I don't people even know. Besides the obvious, it is 2D and such. The only one I can think of that really bugs me is the compile time when using large maps or rsc files. | |
One limitation that comes to mind is colored dynamic lighting. You also can't do effects like turning something to grayscale. Or at least, as far as I know you can't do it without icon arithmetic which is super slow. So that takes the graphics department down a notch, but it shouldn't stop people from making great looking games.
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Oh yeah... that reminds me byond's tile based lighting and view system is pretty ugly looking when dealing with opacities. I forgot since I use a really nice lighting system.
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The Magic Man wrote:
Not trying to start anything, but from what I've had people tell me, SilkWizard sent more than just a few emails out. No, it truly was just a couple of emails. When Silk frantically called me up the next morning we were completely unprepared to deal with the server load. To this day we've still never actually started a real advertising campaign for the game. I know a certain website that rhymes with Pan that was viraled for weeks on end by either Silk or someone he knew. No idea what you're talking about there. | |
Calus CoRPS wrote:
I've always felt that it was self explanatory. Space Station 13 is categorized in a genre that has yet to be touched outside of BYOND. It is essentially a sandbox space [station] game. This. Sandbox games are obviously popular. If someone made a really good sandbox game in space, or even just a space station like SS13, it would explode in popularity. The keyword there is "good", however. SS13 is not good. | |
Which is the part that puzzles me. I know it's not horrible, but it's pretty bad. I don't know why anyone would put themselves through a bad game because it had good concepts. I mean, I understand playing it once or twice based on concept, but where's the appeal for returning players?
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NNAAAAHH wrote:
Which is the part that puzzles me. I know it's not horrible, but it's pretty bad. I don't know why anyone would put themselves through a bad game because it had good concepts. I mean, I understand playing it once or twice based on concept, but where's the appeal for returning players? We all have different tastes. Some of us enjoy the random possibilities that occur on the space station and having to deal with them with a cooperating crew. Of course, the keywords are "cooperating crew". Because as with any online role-playing game, the community plays a huge factor. | |
Everyone has different tastes. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean others wont.
Also you have to remember, SS13 is basically community made and driven now. The person who initially made it hasn't worked on the game in years. It's been remade in BYOND several times, and there is even a remake being made outside of BYOND. There is always someone adding new things, changing things, improving things or some such. The game has both high replayability and a very active rate of development. Two things a lot of games on BYOND simply lack. | |
But that doesn't magically make a bad game good, though. I understand perfectly well there are different taste. I respect that other people like CoD. I wouldn't understand if I ever met someone that like Kane and Lynch 2.
Me being unable to understand why people like it, doesn't mean they don't like it or shouldn't play it. You're free to play what you want, and I'm not here to say you can't. I just don't know why you do. @Calus CoRPS This is the reason I don't prefer any role-playing game on BYOND, no one really knows what they're doing, and the ones that do all want to be more of a main-attraction in the game than anything. Not that everyone doesn't, but most people that can actually RP decently enough get upset about not having their proffered role(normally a person with power(ie: cop, captain, ect)). It's hard to have everyone work together when everyone is bringing the mood down, which is why most people try to get a group of people that all have their roles already. Like in LoL, when you have someone on your team that is the proffered jungle/support, one proffered adc/tank, ect. You get someone that can do two or three roles, and make sure they get those roles, so they don't get butthurt when someone else takes that role. Also a reason I don't like League of Legends, it gets boring playing the same roles all the time. Post Script: Nice to see you actually following a topic again. I might've been overlooking post you've made, but I haven't seen any lately. @The Magic Man I understand it's now just people 'modding' SS13, but it doesn't help that none of them really know what they're doing. I have yet to hear of anyone fixing stability issues present in SS13, nor have I heard of any decent features added that would attract me to it, outside of people throwing in 20 libraries and coughing out more money for a better server because they don't know why it lags. | |
Getting into the perfect role-playing environment that is under control and enjoyable is difficult on BYOND. I haven't played an rp game off BYOND, but I'd like to imagine that the task would be similar. I remember a few of us having private SS13 servers for our friends. While somewhat fun, the playerbase was small and repetitive.
These type of games can just be a pain to enjoy sometimes, but I believe the sandbox addition helps a ton when the role-playing goes out the window. I personally think it's a good game. Not well designed as it has it's flaws though. If it were remade off of BYOND, the role-playing aspect should be toned down and there should be more of an emphasis on building together. PS @ NNAAAAHH/Albro1: Thanks! I haven't been on the computer for the past 3 months or so. Life and other stuff that is way off-topic got in the way, haha. | |
This is the Internet. Unless you personally know and gather a group of friends to RP, a consistently good RP environment just isn't possible on or off BYOND.
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I've had a rather large number of full-text RP sessions off-BYOND with different groups of people, all rather enjoyable and pleasant. Not a lot of unpleasant experiences with the people I've RPed with. When it was, it usually meant a kid was trying to RP, and doing really bad at it.
I've had one good RP session on BYOND, but I knew three of the people(out of eight). | |
I think it's weird that the game has yet to be remade in BYOND, considering its popularity and the amount of programmers that actively contribute to the various forks. I've heard a lot about ambitious 3D remakes but no solid effort to fine-tune the game's design in DM.
Take the most popular modes / features / content, work out the kinks (interface, grieving, etc)... Once complete, the code base would be a lot more friendly to work with and a hell of a lot less laggy. Could have a fun game, with an existing fan-base, ready within 4 months or so, depending on the developers aim for content. | |
That said, this does bring up an interesting point, that we could do with getting people talking about marketing and presentability a bit. Something I think EnigmaticGallivanter is quite interested in?