Well, I flat ran out of money so we had to shift gears and try to move to something that will hopefully help the project. I'm sorry. I didn't want things to turn out this way but it's just not a good business.
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Tom wrote:
Well, I flat ran out of money so we had to shift gears and try to move to something that will hopefully help the project. I'm sorry. I didn't want things to turn out this way but it's just not a good business. I get what you're saying, but what most users are waiting on is just a glimpse of where the progression and state of play the Flash client is at. Nothing fancy or a release. | |
I'd imagine there isn't much else to show than what has already been shown via Youtube or screenshots. You can't expect him to update us with each individual change that is made in the software. Besides, didn't he just say that he had to divert his attention to different things?
Although, more frequent updates on what's going on behind the scenes would be nice. | |
Kumorii wrote:
I'd imagine there isn't much else to show than what has already been shown via Youtube or screenshots. After a full year? You can't expect him to update us with each individual change that is made in the software. I never asked for something as drastic as that, get on topic. Although, more frequent updates on what's going on behind the scenes would be nice. Never going to happen. | |
The flash is in the same state as it was when I made this post, which is "basically working but will need some work to integrate into the website and social networks". Like I said, we has to put the project on hold because that "work" could potentially be a huge time sink with no real guarantee of bringing in income that we sorely need. Maybe this new pager setup will be the same but I felt it was a better option for us since at least it works with an existing infrastructure (whereas the flash may take much more time to get right and may never bring in any money). I don't mean to be so money motivated but BYOND is seriously on its last legs here and I'm doing what I can to try to salvage it, because I think the alternative is a worse experience for everyone.
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Tom wrote:
The flash is in the same state as it was when I made this post, which is "basically working but will need some work to integrate into the website and social networks". Like I said, we has to put the project on hold because that "work" could potentially be a huge time sink with no real guarantee of bringing in income that we sorely need. Maybe this new pager setup will be the same but I felt it was a better option for us since at least it works with an existing infrastructure (whereas the flash may take much more time to get right and may never bring in any money). I don't mean to be so money motivated but BYOND is seriously on its last legs here and I'm doing what I can to try to salvage it, because I think the alternative is a worse experience for everyone. Understandable. | |
What if some bigger games that are being made would garner more attention, would you reconsider? I want to release a big project myself on Byond, but it looks like Tom wants us to stay reclusive (though I understand there are issues at hand). It shoots down the motivation when developers can expect the current limited audience to remain limited. Of course the major effort to get an audience is on the part of the developers, if the effort they go through gets cut down simply because the players have to go through extra trouble to play the game when they don't have to, things should move forward.
All of this has probably been said, or considered already, so what I'm really trying to get to is: If developers FINISH their games with an indie standard quality and want to release it, will you (Tom) work on making their game accessible to a wide audience. | |
I want and intend to get this Flash version out (since we already put so much work into it, albeit a couple of years ago). However, I just can't justify the commitment at the moment when we are really barely surviving (this project has earned negative income for me the last two years). So if we can start bringing in some revenue and more people contribute, I'm happy to keep the other projects alive.
I will be making a post (maybe a podcast) about all of this very soon when we bring this beta version public. I want people to understand exactly where we stand at this moment, and why individual contributions are important if people want BYOND to keep going (if not, well.. we've had a good run). | |
Motivation enough for me, thanks.
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I'm just curious as to what is the main expense that the BYOND project currently has? to an outside user like me it seems the maintenance of the website and the hubs, and the domain to some extent are the major players?, and with that in mind I struggle to see how you are falling behind with memberships being $25 dollars each.
Unless this a full time job for some of the staff?, or I am missing something entirely. | |
You guys have no idea how much labor is involved in a project of this size. And yes, labor (time) is the main expense.
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Tom wrote:
You guys have no idea how much labor is involved in a project of this size. And yes, labor (time) is the main expense. I believe he was asking what goes on behind the curtains rather than thinking it's a simple task. Nothing more. [Edit] It would be interesting to know what really makes BYOND so costly & labor intensive. (Other than the obvious.) | |
well it is evident that you guys are working hard, I mean prompt replies to the bugs/discussion. Would it not be a bad idea if some of the revenue gets directed towards advertising BYOND itself?, ofcourse this is just contemplative and I hope the pager itself is enough to even out the losses you have had.
However it seems that the population is somewhat stagnating, it is the people like us who should advertise and I agree with that, however I find little incentive to do so. I mean 3 or 4 guys might make an account play the game then bounce. Maybe once a while one of them might get a membership, but all in all its too much effort for very little gain on a developers part. Unless you have the drive to make Nestalgia, which the average user doesn't have. | |
What makes BYOND so costly is that this project takes a lot of time to maintain, and time isn't free. It's actually pretty insulting that people just assume this just works by itself and nothing need be done, or else that we're just going to spend all day working for nothing (which describes my life for the last two years btw).
We're constantly fixing things with the software and website. We have to deal with tons of stupid issues with players and games, with people hacking and scamming. We have to decide on a business model and implement it into a piece of legacy software that has become increasingly hard to maintain. If this project does go under-- and that's looking pretty likely-- you guys will understand exactly what we do because it basically will cease to work without people behind it giving it support. I mean really, what do people at Twitter do all day? Their stuff is a hell of a lot simpler than BYOND and they have like 1000 employees. | |
Jean Scribe-- there is no revenue. That is the point.
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Tom wrote:
It's actually pretty insulting that people just assume this just works by itself and nothing need be done, or else that we're just going to spend all day working for nothing. I don't think anyone is trying to "insult" you. It's just no news is ever posted, it seems like nothing is done (unless you read the feature requests and such) because of that. Most people like to be informed on things, even if they're small. They key part of it is that it motivates alot of people. | |
This might be very early to be asking this question, and dare I ask it considering the unfathomable happens... but if BYOND becomes support-less... will developers have some sort of means to make their own infrastructure (a mini byond / hub / whatever) work? What I mean by this is, will we be given the opportunity to do what you do on our own, with our own games. So people who have money and means to keep things running could theoretically set how dream daemon contacts a master server to check life and port openness, and report hub status to your own server, etc. etc. I hope that makes sense.
If BYOND is gone, can my game carry on, given I handle the responsbilities that byond.com would normally be taking care of. | |
Almost a year later, lol.