Hey y'all. I don't like doing this, but the last couple of days have been pretty disappointing. I think, I'd like to address a few things that have been going on. I've been relatively quiet until now, but some stuff needs to be laid bare.
I made a call on Saturday to ban Zeke, the owner of Grind Knight's castle from BYONDiscord. There's a lot of context to all of this, but suffice it to say, I knew of the incompatability between myself and his moderator Ourico/Yark, and I very much wanted to keep my distance. I made a lot of efforts to keep my opinions about the kind of thing that goes in on that server to myself, and I've been sent enough receipts about what that server is to know it wasn't for me. Still, I rarely discouraged anyone who wasn't a friend from going there. I don't believe my opinions much matter in terms of what other people want to do with their time, and some of what other users were doing there, particularly Zeke and Ourico/Yark themselves, was pretty cool. I really wanted them to succeed with their video tutorial series, and to do something that we sorely need as a community: Create resources to bring new folks into the community. I was committed to silence and separation. I did not want to continue the beef. I just wanted them to stop showing up in my server, and threatening people.
Since then, however, they have chosen to engage in a harassment campaign, spamming my e-mail with password reset requests, and even finding my wife's facebook account and initiating a password reset on it, sending malicious e-mail to Lummox via the support form, threatening Lummox's livelihood, and threatening Spevacus in the same way via password resets. I hear your message loud and clear: You can google me and find people close to me. When you drove to Canada and showed up at [another BYONDer's business], you made it very clear you have the resources to find people from the web and show up where they live. I hear you. You're a big scary man. I get it. But let's just talk for a minute about some history, and specifically, let's talk to the people that you have hoodwinked into thinking you are some kind of Jesus figure, and I'm some sort of satan figure destroying the thing you are trying to save. Yeah. The people in your community that you are lying to.
BYONDiscord
BYONDiscord started out a few years back as an attempt to repair a community fracture that was ongoing. BYOND wasn't always quiet. It was anarchic, and it was meanspirited. Every day was a shitfight, and after a while, that really wears on you. I love this weird little community, but I'm also more than a little embarrassed by it. I can't in good conscience recommend a community to outsiders where the most memorable moments in its history seem to center around the episodes of community drama it has undergone.
The things that always stuck with me was hacking at some weird code with someone, discovering that something new was entirely possible in the engine we had never imagined before, and writing up what we found to share it with others. That's what kept me coming back: An ill-explored, quirky little engine that could do some cool stuff if you could just trick it into cooperating. And the people I met over the years were some of the wildest, most vulnerable, genuinely interesting people I've met in my life. When I started BYONDiscord, I felt that the cycle of creating new discords and splitting the community was absolutely killing us. We lost more and more people every year to the cyclic drama, and the poor moderation decisions, and just the ravages of life and time.
I wanted to help fix that. One of the users I met in real life, was Kumorii, and hanging out with him in his art community while I took a break from game development really opened me up a lot more. I met people outside of BYOND that were just straight up good, friendly, helpful people who didn't turn on each other every chance they got. Kumorii's discord server had its season, which came and went, but I learned from Kumorii's style of leadership, and his love for community building. He also helped me unload some of the anger and sadness I carried from the damage that growing up in this community did to me. I learned to be vulnerable with people. I learned to not expect every interaction to become hostile, and I really changed who I was as a person. Kumorii gave me the opportunity to be something other than "Ter from BYOND, dark wizard, and destroyer of his enemies". He taught me (some) restraint, and he demonstrated a kindness and compassion that I hope that one day I will do a fair impersonation of.
Several users approached me after I left [a different BYOND] discord, a few months before [the owner] was banned from discord for advocating political violence, and it turned into a completely lawless zone. They asked me to create a new discord. I said no. But the requests germinated into an idea. What if I didn't try to create a community at all? What if instead of trying to amass big numbers, and take over BYOND, and use it as a platform to make myself more important, I just created a space where I would be comfortable doing my work, and shooting the shit with people who wanted to hang and make games? What if I didn't care about growth, or competition with the other discords, and just made a nice walled garden that I could invite friends over to and chill with? BYONDiscord's rules began to take shape. It was never meant to be an official BYOND community: It was meant to just be a space where I could talk about what I was working on. It started out slow, but got populated fast, and the rules weren't really working. You see, the big thing I wanted to do, was give everyone a second chance to get to know one another, and see how similar they are, rather than just be on guard all the time, waiting until someone brought up some shit they did when they were 13, and then for the whole community to pick a side and dogpile them. BYONDiscord was supposed to be a space where we gave people opportunities to talk things out, and maybe heal from all the shit we'd done to one another over the years. Maybe then, the focus could be on encouraging one another to do the work, and supporting one another in our attempts to mak gam.
Difficulties Arise
Ourico/Yark joined the discord in 2022 or so, and was immediately attacked by another user who had a history with him. At this time, I had never even heard of the guy, so I had zero context. The user that attacked him was a user who we were really trying to get to calm down and stop throwing punches at people over past drama, and had been making good progress. We warned the other user, and reminded them of the second-chance rule. However, within a single day, he was in the DMs of another user from the server, making threats. My moderators chose to ban him, as we felt that exposing our users to this activity was not conducive to an environment of trust. I was not present for the situation,
Exhibit A: Threatening a user via DMs on his first day in the server.
I was later on that year brought in to rewrite some code for a friend's project. Ourico/Yark was brought into the discord. I was told he was a designer, but he doesn't seem aware that he was brought in to work on the project, and seems to think that he was there to hold court and post political memes and edgey boy opinions about women and homosexuals. The conversation in which he chose to run down homosexual relationships as "not real" and spreading disease made me uncomfortable being in that discord. I'm just accustomed to a little more professionalism and understanding that when you work with people, you really shouldn't be risking professional relationships by making controversial takes every chance you get.
However, I really liked working with the project owner, so I took a gamble and banned Ourico/Yark anyway and told the owner what I'd done. I also explained at the time that it was a bad idea to have someone so clearly malicious anywhere near the code or art assets for the project. This statement would later be vindicated, as he was caught eight months later distributing art assets from the project that he was not given permission to use for his GrindKnight tutorials. He'll tell you he got full permission, but he got permission to use the walking and idle state of one sprite, and instead distributed several terrain assets and the entire sprite.
To his credit, he did remove the assets he was not given permission to use later. An uncharitable take on this would be that he took advantage of his friend. A charitable take on this would be that he didn't understand the risk he was putting Grind Knight, and their entire project in by not being cautious about the artwork they were distributing as part of the project.
For context, Ourico/Yark was more well behaved than this at the time of my interactions, but only because he attempts to maintain a false image of civility now. He still delves into the same arguments, just seems to avoid using the slurs quite so often:
Exhibit B: Yes. He did just endorse genocide.
Grind Knight Goes Hard
Zeke's server started to take off. They began producing video tutorials. They were doing good work. Sure, they made a few weird choices, like choosing to include my BYOND profile one of their videos for some strange reason, but it wasn't an attack, so I didn't say a word. Sure, they were doing some weird culty shit to indoctrinate their users in meninist and transphobic propaganda, but overall, they did their thing, and left us alone. They asked permission to advertise in my server, and I granted it. They didn't need to ask. A bunch of BYONDiscord users jumped over to participate in what they had going on, and I stated my opinion on the matter: I wouldn't be anywhere Ourico/Yark was, but I was fine with there being multiple servers with different vibes, so long as those who didn't fit in one or the other were not harassed between the two. Communities that give neonazis power (again, refer to the Jewish Question comment above) is just not a place I want to hang my hat, but I think people should make up their own mind.
Zeke and I had a slight run in, where he asked me to basically restrain my opinions about his users and moderation, and that's totally fair. I relented after a bit of a back and forth, but he never fully denied that one of his admins was a nazi. This wasn't surprising to me, however, as I knew of Zeke from elsewhere:
Exhibit C: Zeke isn't ignorant or looking the other way. He is a willing participant.
Still, I endeavored to keep the peace, and keep my mouth shut. Zeke brought me numerous issues thenceforth surrounding a user that was in both servers, who was being bullied by multiple users hopping into my server to chase after him. Sure, that user wasn't totally innocent, but their server has since collectively released a video that is dominantly a compilation of them mocking this user, who is the recipient of a massive amount of bullying in that server and users within Zeke's discord have also begun harassing this user's wife off-platform.
I knew that I needed to keep my distance, but I hoped that I could just let them do their thing, and they'd let me do mine. Unfortunately, the DMs from Zeke continued. In the end, a user asked about Grind Knight's Castle, after they had given up on making video tutorials for BYOND because their community wouldn't record videos for free for them so that they could put their branding on the videos and release them as their own. This user was told by another user who had left Grind Knight's Castle that they had chosen to not be part of the server after watching Ourico/Yark offer to "correct" a brand new user's sexuality because they had filled out the pronouns section of their discord profile. Ourico/Yark does not deny this, and in fact, accuses our lack of obsessive interest in other peoples' sexuality as being pedophilic:
Exhibit D: Zeke knowingly lied about this incident being made up.
Zeke showed up in the discord a full day after the comment about GKC was made, and chose to accuse other users of lying about what goes on in there, and accusing that user of spreading drama, which is against our server's rules. I want to be clear here: I did warn the user for tracking in mud, but given the fact that I have receipts that Ourico/Yark did do this to one of their new users, and that the user who was cautioned away from that discord was not the kind of person that Grind Knight's Castle would tolerate, or who would tolerate being in a server that allows neonazis to incite people to harass other people on the internet, I felt that it really was for the best that this user stay away from there. Still, I didn't say this. I warned the user, told Zeke I was tired of him coming in to censor every mention of his server that isn't positive, and using our rules in order to try to get users he doesn't like banned from our discord, or at the very least, engaging in some serious bad faith to try to manipulate people into thinking that an action that one of his own moderators admitted to doing publicly, didn't in fact happen.
"Pretaliation"
A full three months have passed since my last contact with any of the GKC gang, and their name hasn't fallen out of my mouth a single time since:
Exhibit E: Ourico (confirmed by IP address) knocking on the door to my e-mail.
I had been working with Lummox to see who had been trying to get into my BYOND account since the 11th of December. A full five days before I banned Zeke, you see, someone had been sending password recovery requests to my BYOND account's linked e-mail. The effort was half-hearted, but still a knock on the door serious enough to prompt Lummox to warn the culprit to knock it off. Ourico/Yark wound up being the primary culprit, though there were other IP addresses in the mix. This is unsurprising, as Ourico likes to attempt to incite other people to act on his behalf. You see, he didn't start Grind Knight to better BYOND. He started it to build a reputation, and create a little cult of people who will tramp around BYOND, invade games, harass people, and troll the discord servers of roleplaying games with him. I will not make judgements here about what would inspire this behavior, but you see, he's quite fond of getting others to try to do his dirty work:
Exhibit F: Ourico calling his community cowards if they don't "attack" us.
He gets banned a lot, so of course, he promotes ban evasion:
Ban evasion, is really just his deal:
Exhibit G: Ourico has multiple sockpuppets in our discord. Zeke intends to ban evade. We've known. We've ignored them.
Now that Ourico/Yark has been warned that further attempts to access my account will get him banned, he feels the need to threaten the engine developer. Why? Because the engine developer likes a horse that can't stand nazis more than a nazi that's currently using his platform to engage in targeted harassment of games and users.
Exhibit H: Threatening the owner of the site's livelihood to keep me from damaging the site with my "femininity". So manly.
Gee, I wonder if the owner of the site made the right choice?
I privately predicted this outcome well before Ourico began to blame me for the failure of their Grind Knight project:
Exhibit I: I eated a crystal ball once.
How can I have caused this failure of your brand, without ever having sent a message in your server, or only having told people who already agreed with me, in private of what was about to happen? You came into my server. Showed your ass multiple times, caused a bunch of drama, and then when I ban you, suddenly having control of your own server isn't enough for you? You have to control everyone else?
But wait! There's more.
In the hours since he was told he would be banned for further use of the password recovery tool on accounts that weren't his, which he admitted to, my wife's facebook account has had password recovery requests sent to it, and as has Spevacus' facebook account. Ourico has chosen to engage in his beef with anyone who knows me, regardless of whether they were even aware of what happened. Spevacus in particular, basically slept through this whole thing, and made great efforts to see the great work that used to be done in Grind Knight's Castle.
So I guess, I'm writing all of this in the hopes that a few of you in that server aren't completely unhinged, and see that this is a bad idea. When you guys accuse me of trying to destroy this platform, I can't help but notice who are the people making threats, and elevating neonazis who comfortably spout racial slurs everywhere they go as the figureheads of this community. Do you people really think that these guys are it? Do you really think that it's a good look for us to become the game development platform that was popularized by big boi racists, misogynists and homophobes?
Look, I know I'm asking for the impossible here, as you people don't build things, but could you please just go away, and stop trying to nazify shit that better people have built, and then claim it as your own? If you weren't such narcissistic, thin-skinned egomaniacs, you would have been welcome with open arms. If you weren't so busy bullying anyone who is different from you, you'd have been welcome. If you weren't so busy attacking peoples' wives because you got in a fight with a guy who roleplays a horse on the internet about whether or not you should be allowed to shit up a privately owned discord server with your brand of hate, harrassment, and whatnot else, you would be welcome.
I will not be forced to rub elbows with big boi racists just to avoid being bullied and harassed. Anyone that is still in that discord, and is fine with what's going on, I promise you, nothing good will come from being there. Those two will lie to your face, manipulate you, claim your work as their own, and they will lead you deeper into a world of conspiracy and hate that will take any hope you have of living a fulfilled life away from you. So yeah. Have your laughs, boys. Go after my wife. Go after random women on the platform, and harass the shit out of the gays. Target Lummox and try to fuck with his money. Get the platform shut down like some jilted ex that won't let anyone have her if they can't control every aspect of her life. Go right ahead.
I love this community. I really do. But we've split into two camps: Those who want exactly what's happening now, the drama. The petty bickering, the raids, and the harassment of peoples' wives and children, thinking that's what made BYOND great, and people who want to tinker with independent videogame development, and help others find the path. When you say I'm destroying BYOND, ask anyone who has left what drove them away. Invariably, they all point back to the hate, the suspicion, and the backbiting. What you do is not respectable. What you do will not grow the platform. What you do will destroy it if it is allowed to take root. I'm against that.
So again, I ask the rest of you still hanging out in Grind Knight's Castle: Are you? I don't care about being liked. Or respected. I don't want a big name, or a platform to use to weaponize in my name. I'm not here to indoctrinate you. I'm here to let you make your own decisions, and ask you what you are working on, and tell you that you should keep doing the shit out of it. That's all.
ID:2904447
Dec 18 2023, 7:57 am (Edited on Dec 18 2023, 5:58 pm)
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Just confirming some of the password resets I received:
Blanking out my name is pretty pointless IMO, but eh. I let my current and previous employers know that they might be contacted by bad-faith actors, tightened up security on my accounts, and left it at that. In the rare chance that this wasn't retaliation for the above-mentioned drama and this is an unrelated bad-faith actor gunning for my account, then I apologize. The timing matches up a bit too well though. Look... I liked the idea of Grind Knight. A moniker built to represent tutorials meant to guide new users into the engine is a fantastic idea. The problem, as always, isn't the idea... It's the people. I joined GKC and tried to shore up relationships with the folks there and start featuring the good that they've been doing on Within BYOND. My thoughts about the political views of the folks who run Grind Knight's Castle aside, the content they were making had a bunch of value and I wanted to enshrine that as best as I could. Not long after I started trying to do this, I started seeing the forest for the trees. Grind Knight's Castle has a "spicy chat" channel that's opt-in, and given the political leanings of the moderators of that server, you can imagine what kind of content is predominant in there. There's only so much hate you can permit to be posted in a server, even if it's shored away in a "hidden" channel, before that ideology becomes the prime way of thinking, driving the rest out. This isn't to mention the immediate harassment of users who join with pronouns in their bio: I dunno. I don't think ostracizing a whole collective of "alphabet people", as they've called them, is necessarily conducive to empowering new developers and providing a space for each other to learn and showcase their accomplishments. But maybe that's just me. I think the biggest reason I left the server and decided to be done with GKC as a whole was one particular event around mid-August. after featuring Sigrogana Legend 2 in Within BYOND side-along to a recent Grind Knight video, I hopped into their SL2's discord server to talk about their featured updates. When I did so, I was told that Grind Knight was a "general harassing nuisance of a group". When I responded, someone else hopped in to mention that they were aware of their antics: Within the hour of this conversation, Zeke DM'd me: "We don't sneak around SL2 anymore... Except when we do." Despite this, I still tried to look past the people. In the resulting conversation with Zeke, I still tried to joke around the idea that they've caused hurt to a community that's pretty divorced from the general DM dev community. But upon reflection, I realized that my continued showcase of Grind Knight's content had the potential to be positively highlighting toxic behavior. I could not in good conscience continue to do so. I stopped showcasing their content and, eventually, left the server. I did not make a loud exit, and I did not go out of my way to tell anyone else not to join their server. I share the same values as Ter: If that sort of community is your thing, by all means, feel free to hang there. I just personally couldn't be in there anymore without having to look past a bunch of wild behavior that I personally do not think is beneficial to the broader BYOND development community. |
Y'all, these two are like Shane in that they get off on feeling like they have some semblance of power by getting people to react to harassing them. By making this post you're playing into it and giving them a reason to continue.
Protip: remember that who you're actually dealing with are two boys, hidden behind anonymity because they're actually afraid of people finding out who they are. The two of them have spent the fifteen odd years since they graduated high school avoiding growing into men and trying instead to recreate their high school experience of running around in a mediocre roleplaying game trying be Naruto. That isn't the behavior of someone who is enjoying the way their life is going—no matter how they try to present it otherwise. They're attention-seeking dorks who don't even have the talent or focus to finish a game in BYOND. Delete this thread and stop being a fucking idiot giving them what they want. |
I skimmed over most of this, but there are two important things I should say:
1) Spev, I have not messed with your Facebook. As far as I was/am concerned, you are a chill guy. Enjoyed our time in voice chat (no homo). 2) No, I am not afraid of people finding out who I am. That's why I proudly display my face on my Discord profile pic, and discuss my work. :MIGHT GUY SMILE: EDIT: Also haven't messed with your wife's Facebook, Ter. I genuinely just assumed you had a husband or partner. Last thing I'll say here is that the only reason I sent password resets to your email was to provoke a reaction; I don't have any interest in gaining access to anyone's accounts. You delivered more than I could have ever imagined. |
Dear Friends,
It is with a sense of profound concern that I address the current situation, as I observe a surge of negativity and misinformation. I am disheartened by Ter's post, which appears fraught with inaccuracies. My aim is to promptly address these issues, hoping for a resolution that allows us to move beyond this trivial matter. 1. Firstly, the revelation about Ter's marital status is unexpected. I was under the impression, based on reliable sources, that Ter identified as gay and was unmarried. My apologies for any misunderstanding, though I have encountered several instances where Ter has stated otherwise. I want to make it clear that there were no attempts to hack anyone's accounts. 2. Regarding Spevacus, I am aware of your technical expertise. Sending multiple password requests is not a hacking technique; it achieves nothing. Genuine hacking would involve malware or access to the target's email, leaving no trace of password reset emails. This clarification aims to dispel any misconceptions and suggests that the situation may have been misinterpreted amid confusion. 3. Concerning the artwork in the BYOND tutorial videos, Jordan initially provided us with the art, well before significant progress on your project. When you raised concerns, we reviewed and agreed that its use was still permissible, as Jordan continued to endorse it. 4. Ter, your initiative in reaching out to Zeke for open dialogue between servers was a commendable step towards peaceful coexistence, which both sides have actively pursued. 5. After discussing with Spevacus, we unlisted the ban evasion video. While created humorously and focused on basic security measures, we understood it might not be well-received by everyone and unlisted it as a gesture of goodwill and commitment to supporting BYOND's growth. 6. As for f0lak, his open invitations to visit his restaurant and public sharing of his media appearances reflect his pride in his business. The claim of 'stalking' seems exaggerated, considering the friendly and welcomed interactions he has had with visitors, including positive feedback on his offerings. 7. My tutorial videos remain publicly accessible, serving the broader developer community. The intention behind these resources is purely educational, without any aim to cause harm. 8. Addressing the request for 'free videos' from community members, our intention was to enrich the content with diverse expertise. While many showed interest, the actual follow-through was limited, which was disappointing but did not deter our efforts in content creation. 9. Attached screenshots illustrate the respectful and positive interaction between the servers, led by Zeke and Ter. Ter, the sudden shift in your stance is disheartening, and your attempts to malign our efforts are deeply concerning. 10. We acknowledge the presence of members with varying views on political correctness. Our approach is to allow open dialogue, limiting sensitive discussions to specific channels, with an understanding that occasional minor issues may arise. This approach has resulted in no bans, as we advocate for open communication. I extend my best wishes to everyone and encourage participation in any Discord server of choice, supporting the diverse DM and BYOND community. =-=-=-=-=-=-= As I wrote this I witnessed an incident where a critical comment towards you, Ter, was removed. This act of censorship and manipulation is troubling. As a person usually detached from such conflicts, I find myself compelled to intervene if such deceptive practices continue. Ter, I respectfully request that you reconsider your post and issue a public apology. Misunderstandings occur, and forgiveness is key to moving forward. An apology would greatly contribute to the harmony and well-being of the BYOND community. =-=-=-=-=-=-= "The only limit to your potential is the limit you place on your own mind." -Grind Knight No bans: https://i.gyazo.com/4f0d774f1943f63d94debcfa3f9bceee.png Friendly chat with Ter: https://i.gyazo.com/80a8fa126ebcc3dbfa013ad324e60047.png https://i.gyazo.com/eabdfad04fa77dafb9934517bc274bd7.png https://i.gyazo.com/10828f175a31dde17c42af5f504ffa9b.png https://i.gyazo.com/7c077a68fcc4d42a4acef2a8e061a5a4.png https://i.gyazo.com/a43d59754463dbc451b278950ebed5ec.png https://i.gyazo.com/4ddd6693e7a089e0c0ac984bf7ebba1a.png |
In response to Grind Knight
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The censorship angle is a red herring. I deleted the comment, not because it was critical of Ter but because the user who posted it is unwelcome.
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In response to Popisfizzy
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Popisfizzy wrote:
They're attention-seeking dorks who don't even have the talent or focus to finish a game in BYOND. Delete this thread and stop being a fucking idiot giving them what they want. The thread does not exist for them. Just anyone who is fooled by their bullshit. As to GK/Zeke's post here: Ter Gay1) I've been clear on where I stand on this. I don't like being described as gay. Specifically because of your server's comfort with homophobic bullying, and Ourico's very public opinions on "my lifestyle", which he has absolutely zero idea what it is. His thoughts on the eradication of homosexuals are a great incentive to not elaborate further. "Hacking"2) I did not say these were hacking attempts. Ourico and I agreed that it was harassment designed to incite a response. Again, Ourico started doing this 5 days before your ban. If it was a random user? No problem. I would have ignored it. He's one of your mods and half of your GrindKnight persona. You have chosen to not answer to that, or put a stop to it despite him gloating about it in your server, and inciting users within your server. That makes you accountable for it. Asset Dispute3) You were provided the evidence in the DM logs that this was partially untrue. I'll be dumping those later. "Reaching out"4) Zeke, I have the DM logs. I did not reach out to you. You came into my server stirring drama multiple times. You contacted me. We tried to settle the disputes privately for a while. At some point you got bold, and assumed you had me good and manipulated. You DMed me for months regarding users you were actively bullying in your discord, and people sharing opinions about what was going on in there in mine. When you entered my server again, and started accusing a user of lying about an incident that I was given the receipts for, that's when you were Rule II / IV banned. Bad faith / Wipe Your Feet. You were abusing our rules trying to censor dissent. That user was trying to protect another one from being on y'alls radar. Sometimes we make hard calls as server owners. This was not one. You were using our rules against the safety of other users. The safety of the users comes first. The user in question that you came in to call a liar was the one Ourico had threatened when he was banned. That context very much plays into your choices here, because you also knew that he was not lying about what your server is, and the things that go on in it. The only thing I could interpret this as was an overt act of censorship, which I found to be hypocritical given your server's claims to never censor anyone and welcome opposing views. I have zero problems with that hypocrisy by itself, until you start to pretend to be some kind of moral paragon while actively keeping on staff a Nazi who has been attacking other users on the platform because he finds it fun, as he admits below. Ban Evasion5) This is ephemeral. The decision to create it underscores the character of the community you run, and the harassment your community encourages. IRL6) I'm sorry I used his name. I'd prefer we not mention it again here. What I will say, is when you have a user who is willing to engage in unsolicited harassment by his own admission, and makes public comments about eradicating homosexuals, that person gloating about seeking someone out IRL does not make people feel safe. Particularly when the user is by their own admission, sockpuppeting a server they were banned from for threatening other users. Videos7-8) Your tutorial videos are not the issue. It is the culture and exploitation that surrounds them that I object to. Confusing De-escalation For Friendship9) I have attached the entire dump of our conversations, Zeke. I have redacted names of those who haven't consented to be here, as best I can. You will see I have initiated contact with you twice. Once to resolve a personal dispute that had nothing to do with my server, that I wouldn't even have informed you about if you didn't immediately DM me about joining your server for a moment. Once in response to a ping after you had chased your users into my server to corral some drama that spilled from yours to mine. The change in tone was not sudden. I was always uncomfortable with you. I'm not stupid. I knew this was coming from the beginning. I just wanted it to be far into the future when fewer people were giving you the benefit of the doubt, and had seen your true colors. Ourico's attempts to provoke me made me aware this couldn't be put off any longer. So here we are. There's your change in tone. You can't keep manipulating someone who knows they are being manipulated, keep gaslighting them, knowing that you are gaslighting them, and letting your staff take swipes at them and try to provoke them, and seriously expect anyone to believe that you were so nice, so friendly the whole time, can you? Diversity = Homophobic Bullying10) You're welcome to run your server your way. I will not spend my time with people who advocate for my death. I will not allow users to stay who threaten and harass as a means of engaging in disputes to retain access to my users' DMs and personal information. Ourico sums it up very well below that not only will your server, but your server's culture aims to bring back an era of bullying, ban avoidance, harassment, and petty cybercrimes. This is not the moral high ground you think it is. Demand for ApologyWe're past the point where that's a possibility. There is no way to appease you that will last, and I have done nothing that I plan to apologize to you for. No matter what I do, you know your little buddies are gonna keep trying to get a response. So why bother hiding what's going on? Why bother being quiet, hoping you'll go away when we both know you won't. We both know where this is headed, so fuck it, let's just get it done. Bring it on. Fuck with my shit. Do what it is you do. I just refuse to offer courtesy to you that you will only make a public show of offering to me. |
Just to chime in here regarding the visit to my burger shack.
Yeah, Yark stopped by. He left a review on one of my game dev discords and we had a chat about his visit. He liked the burger, I told him about a festival that was happening in town, and we joked about a local news highlight. I didn’t feel threatened by the visit, and didn’t see it as a problem. Finding me isn’t difficult given my proclivity to promote my irl happenings quite openly. Please keep me out of your guys feud. |
In response to Ourico
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Ourico wrote:
Last thing I'll say here is that the only reason I sent password resets to your email was to provoke a reaction; I don't have any interest in gaining access to anyone's accounts. For clarity, Grind Knight *is* both Ourico / Zeke. The first wave of password reset requests were sent 5 days before Zeke was banned. As for your flimsy denials through your sockpuppet, no one accused you of hacking. We accused you of knocking on my door in a shoddy attempt to intimidate, annoy, and harass. Congratulations. You got what you wanted. EDIT: I removed two names from the original post per their requests. |
In response to Ter13
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Ter13 wrote:
I'd also like to take a second to talk to another user that left the discord when I attempted to ascertain his tightness with users that were already violating the TOS on the site, and going after peoples' families over internet beef. You can take as much time as you wish to talk about people who have left the Discord, BYOND or otherwise. I am not quite sure, if this is referring to me leaving or someone else with a similar story, but I'll take a leap and assume you are referring to me. What you were doing is none of my business. However, my concern is being ambushed by what I call "BYOND staff", who try to impose their narrative, perception, and words onto me. At no point did I accuse you of anything. Claiming otherwise is defamation. All I did was tell you to leave me out of whatever drama you people are advocating - twice. I even offered to if you wanted me to leave. It had no effect; you kept pushing. I told you I was going to sleep as I do not want to participate in what ever feud you guys have. Another push, and I told you I quit and advised you to grow up. * leaves Green Discord * I am in a dozen Discord servers, four of which are BYOND related (previously five), all development-related. No one dictates which channels I participate in or how. At no point during that day or another did I participate in what you accused me of doing, I was minding my own business. During that day what you perceived as "passive-agressive" behaviour was me advising a person using my old source/art to start from scratch and/or to remove my key from their game credits on which they have aledgedly worked on for 8 years. I was perfectly respectful in doing so - if they experienced it otherwise, I can't change their perception. To make it perfectly clear, I have well expressed my dislike for Shade in one sentance - no more, no less. Regarding the refund, I have more than four years left on it and was planning to stay a while. Yes, I reached out, but Lummox seems to be completely ignoring my messages, not for the lack of me trying. I am leaving BYOND, it has been around 20 years for me, was a good run, but that has to end. I have had enough of this. I am not going to throw shade (pun not intended) at the engine or the platform in general - I'll just leave it there. |
However, my concern is being ambushed by what I call "BYOND staff", who try to impose their narrative, perception, and words onto me. Neither I nor, nad are BYOND staff. My discord is a private, unofficial discord. I've explained this to you repeatedly. We were trying to ascertain whether you were doing Ourico's dirty work. I have screengrabs of the narrative he's currently using to try to damage the platform, and your signing on to it. Don't hang out with scheming white supremacists. It's gross. At no point during that day or another did I participate in what you accused me of doing I have receipts. |
In response to Ter13
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Ter13 wrote:
However, my concern is being ambushed by what I call "BYOND staff", who try to impose their narrative, perception, and words onto me. You all three represented BYOND for me that night. I am not here to nitpick, I am heading to sleep - this topic is dead to me. |
In response to Ter13
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Ter13 wrote:
For clarity, Grind Knight *is* both Ourico / Zeke.This is a fact check false, and you can ask Lummox to verify. Ter13 wrote: We accused you of knocking on my door in a shoddy attempt to intimidate, annoy, and harass. Congratulations. You got what you wanted.Correct, so you ought to take fizzy's advice.. But he's another person you ran off from your community. <cut to the part in the anime where the misunderstood villain makes his big revealing monologue> I grew up with mid-2000s BYOND games, where we GRINDED levels, killed each other, and talked trash. There was no censorship, and the angrier someone was, the funnier it was. The only rule was to not let the GM catch you AFK training. This was a good time for a multitude of reasons, and is something I wanted to see again. Many people feel the same way, and ultimately that's the reason that Zeke and I got together with Grind Knight to build a community around teaching new developers to code in DM. Our philosophies are so different, Ter, that I don't expect you to understand: While I want people to be able to say and post ALMOST anything they want (Koz can tell you about this!), you want to enforce your ideas through censoring and banning those who disagree. Grind Knight's Castle has zero bans, because we are mighty, and you are not. <cut to a stormy scene at dusk, as if some time has passed since the beginning of this flashback> In any case, we made the decision months ago that publishing content for BYOND was no longer a good investment of our time. We were happy with the educational videos that we created, but the lack of support from those who should be most invested in the platform's health was disappointing. There will not be a quiz on this material, but you are welcome to ask follow-up questions. Anyone who has ever interacted with me knows that I am an open book. Also, note the juxtaposition between your paranoia about Taeivas's activity in your server, and my total apathy about whoever is sending you screenshots from ours. Says a lot, doesn't it? ;) |
you want to enforce your ideas through censoring and banning those who disagree. This is you misunderstand on purpose to create a victimhood narrative to incite others to attack me. I don't want to force people to think like me. I want white supremacist goblins out of my discord, out of my DMs, and out of my accounts. I moved you out of my discord. You are still there, harassing people. I moved Zeke out. He is still there. I moved Shane out, he is still there. I do not like my friends feeling unsafe because of your presence, and your use of your discord to inspire people to attack others. I don't care what any of these people think. What I am objecting to, is what they do. And you are using these people to harass others, and get them involved in your white supremacist bullshit. There is no getting around that. You're an avowed nazi. I have the receipts. You can't undo that, and you don't deny it, and I question ANYONE who would look the other way on that because you're "fun". Harassing people, and bullying teenagers isn't fun. I have empathy for the people who are too scared to leave your server because you move to hurt anyone you perceive as damaging you. I also have empathy for the vulnerable, mentally ill people you have manipulated into going off medication and paying you money and getting off balance to fill their head with your nazi propaganda. But once they start participating, it's very difficult to tell the difference between the two groups. |
I am certain we have very different sociopolitical opinions. It's not productive to discuss them here, but you're welcome to DM me.
Harassment is a fairly serious accusation, so let's focus on that. Has someone been harassed by people in GKC? If so, I'll do my best to address it. Oh, and did you have any questions about my antihero origin story? EDIT: I just saw the part of your post where you insinuate that people are paying me. Whoever told you that is taking you for a ride. As a public health professional and an advocate of self-improvement, I strongly recommend you take a breather. |
I'm fully calm, Ourico. I see no value to any further discussion in private. I like my nazis in uniform.
I just want to point out that you have denied exactly nothing relevant, and admitted to some of the more damning things I have chosen to spell out. As for the "gay" thing you brought up earlier as your chief rebuttal. I don't call myself gay, and I have repeatedly asked people to not refer to me as gay, because I'm not. I repeatedly state that I am queer, and you continue to make assumptions, but can't ask what I mean because 100% of the things you see me say are in places you are banned from, because I live rent-free in your head. That's on you. Not on any duplicity by me. Not that it matters. You've made your position on eradicating homosexuals as blood traitors to their race quite abundantly clear above. |
In response to Ter13
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Since you're skipping over the whole harassment thing, I have to assume one of two things:
1) You don't really care that much about it 2) You made it up The reason I'm not going to debate you in public about social or political topics is because Spev or Lummox is just going to lock the thread. |
Since you're skipping over the whole harassment thing, I have to assume one of two things: This you? You've admitted to the harassment. This you? You've admitted to the sockpuppeting of my server to ban avoid. This you? You've tried to inspire your users to attack me and this site. This you? You've admitted to trying to 'Hitler the gay away' from teenagers in your discord. This you? You've been caught threatening Lummox for telling you to stop harassing people. This you? Threatening people who do nothing more than disagree with you? This you? Look, I can't prove the facebook password resets were you with IP data like Lummox was able to do with the password resets to my BYOND account. But it's mighty sus that they happened to not one, but two people you have been targeting the same day, and during the same hours you were actively trying to, as you admitted: "Provoke a response". I suspect it's you. I have good faith reason to believe it's you. You admitted you were engaged in harassment at the time these things happened, and I do not trust a goddamn word you have to say denying it. Full stop. Any reasonable person would take the same conclusion I have from this. These are the facts: You admitted to initiating password resets against my account on the 11th and 16th. The only people who knew about it were you, me, Lummox, my moderators, and anyone you told. The people you would have told, you began to incite to attack us on the 16th. My wife, and Spev's facebook accounts having the exact same kind of knocks on their door at the same time you were actively, and admittedly knocking on the door of my BYOND account, is something that has not happened to either of those accounts before, to my knowledge. The odds of the same thing happening at the same time you were doing what you were doing, and while you were inciting others to go after me, are infinitesimally small. Even if it wasn't you, the incitement I showed above makes you responsible. Don't try to gaslight me and demand an apology. I don't associate with people stupid enough to be fooled by you. |
Your accusation is that I am in your server "harassing people," that I am "using people to harass others," and that there are people whom I have "manipulated into going off medication and paying [me] money."
As far as I know, none of these things are true. Are you going to walk back these accusations or do you want to expand on them? |
You accused me of being childish and controlling [See edit], and I can understand how that's a look. I guess, that's a fair take. I'm not happy to see you go. I'm not happy to see you talking about trying to get a refund for your BYOND membership, and I'm not happy to see you frustrated with the engine.
Don't think for a minute that I wanted to make you leave. I wanted to clear the air, and my discomfort with your insistence that I was only banning these users for their opinions, and not their behavior. I didn't make you aware of what was already going on, because frankly, I didn't want to stir any more than I already was by trying to have a chat. So I understand fully, your perspective at the time you responded and left.
I am not asking you to pick a side. I'm just asking you to take a look at what it is you are supporting at worst, or ignoring at best. What you choose to do is you.
EDIT: This is a characterization. You told me to grow up (ergo childish), and characterized the interaction as me trying to pin something on you, and forcing you to participate in things you don't want to be involved in (ergo controlling). I characterized that as "childish and controlling", which felt like a fair summary. The defamation accusation in your response is, I think, provably inaccurate. Again, I have the receipts. I am happy to share, but I don't think that will make you happy, and I felt your concerns were valid given my understanding of your understanding, so I don't see the need to dump that conversation. I'd appreciate if we could drop the accusation of lying about the nature of our talk, though.
I think... There is some literal untruth here. I shared screenshots below of a statement which paints a picture of your speculation on me being pleased with the outcome of our conversation. However, as this is speculation on my mental state, I'll charitably give it as an opinion. I think, accusing someone of defamation, while implicitly promoting the idea that they are either, through stupidity, or malice toward the platform, driving skilled developers away, is shaky ground at best. Sure. Maybe you were only talking about during that specific conversation in that specific channel. Still, as pointed out above, that doesn't pass muster for defamatory.