Seeing as most mice have them now, It'd be nice to move away from being limited to the ancient setup of three button mice.
If you don't see any value in handling them via Click() procs. Another option would be treating mouse4 & mouse5 like key input and allow verbs to be bound to them, which would help free up keyboard space.
ID:2902663
 Dec 5 2023, 4:25 pm
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All gaming mice (and decent office mice) have these two extra buttons, and binding them is supported both by modern games and windows apps.
A possibility to offload some otherwise complex interactions to M4/M5 for players who have them is worth looking into. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
I don't think there are even Windows messages that handle additional mouse buttons. From what I can find in Windows documentation, Mouse4 & Mouse5 are handled as XBUTTON1 & XBUTTON2 in messages. So it definitely seems possible to support them as inputs. | |
Yes, please.
at any rate those buttons also aren't necessarily widely available.These buttons are good to be used when your game has excessive amount of key inputs. For ss13, I think I would use these key as "Ascent to upper floor" or "Descent to below floor" like page up down. and I commonly use the buttons in all MMORPGs I play. | |
Hrm, interesting. I do see there are various XBUTTON messages. A couple of problems, though:
1) I don't have a mouse with the extra buttons, so testing this would be impossible. 2) It seems like any mapping would be better handled by an external application such as AutoHotKey. | |
1) I don't have a mouse with the extra buttons, so testing this would be impossible.There are a few options then: 1. 5 button mice are quite cheap. Around 30-50 USD. 2. More difficult, but you could test it via an AutoHotKey script. That'd be enough to make sure it works, then it could be tested further in a beta at some point. 3. Provided it's not to hard to get working without a 5 button mouse. A test version could always be looked at by someone with a 5 button mouse. 2) It seems like any mapping would be better handled by an external application such as AutoHotKey.By using AutoHotKey scripts, no keys would actually be freed from use. Which is an issue for smaller laptops without a numpad. Additionally, it'd be less intuitive to setup complex verbs (For example, a verb that uses the atom the client's mouse is over) and then expect players to bind them via AutoHotKey. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Hrm, interesting. I do see there are various XBUTTON messages. A couple of problems, though:I'm sorry to point that out, but such responses seem a bit insulting after the indiegogo campaign that raised twice the ridiculous amount of funds that were requested specifically for obtaining modern hardware for BYOND development. | |
I didn't say it would be impossible to get a 5-button mouse, only that testing is impossible as it stands now.
The campaign funds were put toward a new computer, and the specific development (WebView2) that was promised as part of that is well underway. At no point however was that extended to mean any and all possible interpretations of modern hardware and features intended for such would be planned. I didn't, for instance, commit to getting a second monitor, although I'm still open to the possibility—and that's way more important to a lot more users than supporting 5-button mice. The fact is 5-button mice are not part of the average Joe's computer, and there are very good options already present for the people who have them to map those buttons to other functionality they might want. No game would sanely require a 5-button mouse, so to make any use of those buttons players would still most likely need to do some mapping to other functionality on their own, therefore radically reducing the importance of native 5-button mouse support. Please note, however, I have not dismissed this feature outright. I identified problems. It's still not clear to me this isn't better handled by other methods, but I do see value in being able to tie in the mouse clicks with BYOND's macro system. | |
Just because your understanding of common hardware is 20 years old doesn't make it true. Mice with more than 3 buttons are far more common than not now, it's more uncommon to find one that doesn't have at least two buttons on the side. Even the cheap $10 junk ones.
You buying the same model mouse for your entire life because it's your comfort zone also isn't an excuse to believe your hardware is any indication of what everyone else uses. I remember in 2001 you gave me a lot of crap for not having a monitor that could do more than 256 colors, but at least I was aware that I was using junk and it wasn't what everyone used. | |
Support for M4 and M5 is pretty standard nowadays, at least in games. Buttons beyond those usually have to be mapped with external software.
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James wrote:
Just because your understanding of common hardware is 20 years old doesn't make it true. Mice with more than 3 buttons are far more common than not now, it's more uncommon to find one that doesn't have at least two buttons on the side. Even the cheap $10 junk ones. To be honest, this is cap lol. Maybe it's more common for legit gamers, though. But most mouses still use the standard left/right click and the wheel. | |
Quick search on 5 different hardware sellers, plus Amazon has the top 20 mice with at least 90% having 5 or more buttons, both sorted by popularity and price.
The ones that don't have them are getting to the point where they're advertised as 3-button and the 5-button ones don't mention anything special. Every single mouse for sale at my local Walmart has 5 buttons or more. This is the same argument people made for not supporting the mouse wheel, and later the third click button, and it will end up the same. | |
For amazon, it's more 60/40.
https://www.amazon.com/ s?k=computer+mouse&s=exact-aware-popularity-rank For walmart, regular mouses are much more abundant. I have never personally seen a mouse with more than 3 inputs. Not going to bother looking at more websites. https://www.walmart.com/ search?q=computer+mouse&sort=best_seller In any case, it wouldn't hurt to have more buttons for mouses. However, it's not like a major need. | |
Meme01 wrote:
In any case, it wouldn't hurt to have more buttons for mouses. However, it's not like a major need. mouse 4/5 buttons are like numpad buttons on your keyboard. You don't need it at most times, but you know it's useful if you know when to use. For example, why would you use numpad keys if you don't play SS13? (Sorry, I never heard of any other game using numpad for default gameplay. assuming you played SS13...) If Byond didn't support numpad keys, some people would have said those keys aren't a major need as well. But anyway, there's no point in not supporting those mouse buttons these days. Those buttons are easily accessible from most mice above $10, and most of Byond users might have it and using it well, but just Byond doesn't support it. | |
Mousewheel scrolling was only added in 2015, and that took four years to add. I wouldn't get your hopes up about something as advanced as two extra mouse buttons that aren't guaranteed to be on every mouse currently in existence.
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Still it doesn't make sense the game engine doesn't support buttons which EVERY gaming mouse has. I am 100% sure that a gaming mouse without 4/5 buttons is equally a unicorn alike.
But well, I understand it would take ages... lol | |
This has been added to 516, but not tested so it doesn't appear yet in release notes.
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As far as I know, those extra buttons are just things you map to other inputs, such as key presses.