There is no need to use BYOND's sub system at all, although helping the platform grow by giving some sort of income is a bonus..

If you can't use it for copyright reasons there's always - http://www.byond.com/developer/ATHK/PayPal

A bit more difficult to setup as you need a webserver that uses PHP and remote MySQL, keyword REMOTE as you need to be able to connect to it from your game.. Unless that game is on the same box then it's all good.

This is a complex question with no easy answers, but let me explain BYOND's position on all of this.

One of the reasons (not the only one of course) BYOND has the Published vs. Unpublished distinction is because fangames are a thing. Published games get to use the subscription system. Fangames are not allowed in Published as a rule, because obviously BYOND does not want to be associated with that.

Whether a game ends up in Published is determined by volunteer moderators. This is not done based on an in-depth review of the game and its content, which would be completely infeasible. It's a quick decision and it's possible to get that decision wrong; it's also possible for that decision to be changed if there's good evidence to the effect that the moderator made the wrong call based on the evidence they had in front of them. As always, the individual creators are entirely responsible for their content and whether or not it infringes anything, and it is BYOND's position--officially and unofficially--that people should always strive to make original games, using their favorite media/games/etc. as inspiration rather than a blueprint.

Now looking at this game, I think it would have given me pause, but mostly because I don't know much about Pokemon. I don't see anything up front that makes it overtly a fangame rather than a sly homage that goes for a similar concept and gameplay. That's a very difficult line to draw, and it's important to recognize that anything on the sly homage side of the line is absolutely okay. Not being a fan of the series, I'm not sure what to look for, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me. Does it use any of the same artwork? To me it looks similar, not lifted, but I could be wrong. It's not using any Pokemon names that I can see, except for the fact that "Azure" was a Pokemon version from years ago and I know the series loves to use colors like red, gold, white, etc.; that's not enough to tip it over. But because of my uncertainty on the topic, I would defer this game to another moderator.

This game was moved to Published by two moderators, although it was within like an hour of each other so probably one didn't see that it had been changed already. I'm pretty sure both of them are a lot more familiar with Pokemon than I am, and they deemed it not to be a Pokemon fangame but rather something similar that didn't cross that line. Were they right? I'm not sure, but based on what I see I have no reason to doubt their judgment.

And no, it's not as simple as just changing names around. Trying to knowingly sneak something past the moderators is a very, very bad idea. But dressing a game up in generic terms because it is generic is another story entirely. For instance, there's nothing (besides lack of time or interest) to stop me from developing a game where you trade monster cards and engage in battles; if the game was inspired by another one, but didn't actually copy anything from it, it'd be fine.

Please, allow fangames use the subscribe system and credits system, which money goes totally to the creator, so the byond does not get involved with it.

So, what you're saying is that BYOND should not only get involved, but also encourage copyright infringement? Lol.

Lummox JR wrote:

Whether a game ends up in Published is determined by volunteer moderators. This is not done based on an in-depth review of the game and its content, which would be completely infeasible.

I don't really get this... I don't think it's difficult or a big time sink to tell which published games are fangames, and most of the moderators could probably tell you without logging into said games because they've done so before or it's just common knowledge among the community.

I'm assuming that a moderator, if they want, can move a game to unpublished if they're aware of fangame material within the game then regardless of the hub content... Otherwise it's more or less a greenlight for fangames to use the subscription features.

You may think it's not difficult to check on an individual game, and to an extent that's often true--but it then sets a precedent that moderators are expected to do so for all games, which is simply not feasible. This is not an excuse or a green light for people to do whatever they want--individual authors bear full responsibility for their games, and are responsible for labeling them in good faith.

While that is a consistent policy, If the goal of it is to curb copyright infringement on any level - it's failing miserably. That "language" only allows you to curb the most extreme/obvious instances of abuse.

Writing A New One wrote:

Lummox JR wrote:

Whether a game ends up in Published is determined by volunteer moderators. This is not done based on an in-depth review of the game and its content, which would be completely infeasible.

I don't really get this... I don't think it's difficult or a big time sink to tell which published games are fangames, and most of the moderators could probably tell you without logging into said games because they've done so before or it's just common knowledge among the community.

I'm assuming that a moderator, if they want, can move a game to unpublished if they're aware of fangame material within the game then regardless of the hub content... Otherwise it's more or less a greenlight for fangames to use the subscription features.

Checking a game for copyright infringement and trademark infringement requires you to not only be aware of obscure japanese animes in some cases that may not even have made it to the west yet, but also games media outside of our relevant circles of knowledge.

In many cases it's a one-and-done ten second look.

In other cases, it requires a good amount of research or the community bringing it to our attention.

Also, the majority of the fangame community is a giant headache to deal with owing to their inflated egos and lack of self awareness.

Unlisting a game usually starts a giant fight with that user either via PM, on the forums through "Fight me IRL" threads, etc.

In the absolute worst cases, users that are upset that their games have been unlisted due to fangame content often resort to sending fake C&Ds for other games that they feel are worse than theirs.

The community surrounding these games is toxic and incompetent.

Better to not deal with them at all and attempt to do everything we can from allowing them to use the subscription system to put the site in jeopardy.



Crazah's a good dude. I support what he's doing as long as he doesn't start taking donations. The minute he starts trying to profit personally off of his fangame, he crosses into scumbag territory for me. He's tried to stay off the forums about his game for the most part, and hasn't involved himself in the fangame drama.

IMO y'all should STFU about unfair treatment for fangames. If you weren't scumbags, you wouldn't have anything to worry about with regard to using the subscription/credits system.