So, aside from this post being kind of awkward(since I left the site and all), I was talking with someone(whom reminds me constantly of flying creatures of a time long ago) about doing a contest for the site. This is a big part of why I've been floating around this last week, but I don't want to host a contest(putting up a chunk of my own money) only to have a couple of entries. I'm making this post to see how well received a GiaW contest would be with the current state of the forum.
I would have to host the contest on another key so everyone could get a shot(with block lists and all), give ample time for people to prepare, mash out details on rules and whatnot, and try to somewhat keep charge of it while I work throughout the week. Honestly, I'm not even sure I want to be the one to host the event, but I can't think of anyone else to run it(since everyone I'd like to run it for me would likely take part). I did have a idea for a way to have the contest and allow the one who runs it to have a fair shot in the contest, without the contest being lop-sided or biased, but the implementation would make everything outside the final stages of the contest rather dull.
Afterwards, I'll likely disappear back into the darkness[hello, my old friend].
ID:2033508
 Feb 9 2016, 8:42 am
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Feb 9 2016, 9:29 am
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Rushnut
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I'm glad to see we meet again...
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I once had the idea of making a kind of voting center that anyone could use to vote on anything. I thought it could have been useful, considering how nobody in BYOND ever agrees on anything. I imagined developers here actually working in groups, and instead of fighting, they would use the voting system to determine the best course of action.
I believe there is something inherently democratic about indie game development. I think part of the philosophy of independent game development is being able to avoid the much more strict social structure that is imposed by the mainstream companies. The problem with the BYOND community is that despite all of the built-in networking, most of the developers here have not figured out how to work in groups. Even BYOND's acronym: Build Your Own Net Dream, seems to say something about how overly independent we are here. Some kind of special voting and project management center would be a step towards solving the problem, and would also be quite useful for running game development contests like the kind mentioned here. | |
For one of the contests... I don't remember if it was Iainperegrine's or Oasis's... There was a submission system where you could log in and upload your contest entry. Then during the voting period, only people who logged in with keys that had submitted an entry could download and vote on other developers' entries. People could not vote for their own entries.
This was a pretty excellent. Higoten's submission system for the GiaD2015 was also quite good. So if you're looking for a way for you to host (AND fairly participate), then these are good ways of going about it. That said, I am very down to participate in a Game in a Week contest. Preferrably NOT during my finals season this quarter, which is from March 5th until March 18th. | |
I believe that was Oasis's and was what I was taking inspiration from when thinking of how I could make the voting less biased. However, I was also still a little worried about participants being biased in their voting, favorites like Yut Put and Ter123 being voted more just for being recognizable for these contests. My key idea was to have one person organize the event(like myself) and pool all the entries together and then have people vote based on the actual game, rather than it being 'Yut Put's GiaW 2016' or 'Ter123's OverAmbition 2016.2'(sorry Ter, can't help it), it would be 'GiaW 2016' and 'OverAmbition 2016.2'. Then, once everything was done and voted on, reveal who's was who's. Only issue with that is that people wouldn't be able to actively show off their progress, like they enjoy doing. Which is why I don't know if the idea is viable. I'm probably just being overly distrusting of the fairness of the devs here, since I'd probably pick Ter to win if it were me, as long as the entry was decent enough.
I would likely have all the devs submit a score 1-10 to all of the projects and add the total score up for each entry to determine the winner(s). Another thing I was debating was to allow for a set time(greater than a month) for people to participate, like Higoten did, but with a closed theme. I don't like the idea of random themes, so I would just keep the theme closed off until after the entry deadline and each entry would be able to have a week from the point they entered at to finish their project and then gather them all at the end, allowing for varying schedules. This also puts trusts in the entries to not give away the theme to anyone before the deadline. This would fix your scheduling issue of being unavailable for a set time, as well as other's hopefully. I don't think I'd start the contest until March anyway, then if decided to allow for a extended 'GiaW', I'd probably make it a month long(the whole of March). Giving everyone the choice to start their week at their leisure until the last week, which would be the deadline for entry. | |
Has bias towards certain developers, regardless of quality of entry, really swayed peoples' voting in the contest results though? I've observed that generally, the rankings of entries have more or less represented their quality and how well they fulfill the various judging criteria of the contest. I've certainly noticed that notable developers can screw up majorly in their entry and not place well for it; so I don't think popularity or fame has carried any developer to placing well. At least not to the extent that you seem to make it sound? I dunno. Do you have any specific instances where voting might not have been fair because of developers' fame/popularity?
The problem with allowing people to start whenever they want over the course of the month, but then not assigning a unique set of themes to each developer, is that people WILL talk about the themes and what they are and how they're interpreting them. I don't think any participant can be trusted to keep the themes under wraps. After all, half the fun of even following and spectating and participating in these contests is to watch peoples' development progress AND knowing the themes with which they're working with and seeing how they're interpreting the themes and how the themes influenced their design. The only problem with the random themes with Higoten last time, was that there was almost no filter or consensus on which themes from the list were good or bad. He should have consulted with a few people for inspiration and for feedback when putting together the list that the themes for each participant were drawn from. There was also some talk about a lack of constraints; where design constraints were just as interesting, if not more interesting, to work with than themes. That certainly could have spiced up Higoten's contest a few months ago. If you're still going to have a fixed set of themes that applies to all developers, it's probably best to publically announce all of these themes at the beginning of the contest period, and just make it a month long contest. It certainly won't be the first time a month long contest has been held (the Iccussion contest from 8 years ago hosted by Aaiko). It still turned out to be a great contest despite the relatively long turnaround period. | |
Actually now that I reflect upon it, I think Oasiscircle's BYOND Game Jam from 2014 was the only time when a contest's results was determined by voting.
So I guess the question becomes: Do you think the outcome of that contest was unfair? I certainly thought Dawncaster should have come in first, and my game was broken as shit for half of the people who tried to run it, so despite doing some groundbreaking stuff I suppose I shouldn't have come in third. | |
I certainly thought Dawncaster should have come in first It would have had I voted unfairly. I only beat Yut by one point. Had I not voted for his entry as my #1, I would have won by 2 points. But I voted based on my experience of each of the projects and tried to ignore whose was whose. | |
Sorry I misspoke, it was late, and I wasn't very clear. <_<
Just clearing up any misunderstandings I guess. My observations on the rankings were just my personal judgements of the contest entries. I still believe that the Oasiscircle voting system rendered relatively fair results. | |
As I believe I stated before, I may be putting too much mistrust into the devs that would take place, since I feel I would look at something made by Ter in a positive light, unless it was just plain bad. If someone like Whybe/Dr. Penguin or someone like Lugia joined, I would automatically scoff at whatever they did unless it was exceptionally good. I just feel like attaching the name to the entry could give the voting a u fair field, as the voters would have some idea of what to expect in quality based on if they know the person. It is hard to go in knowing you have to try to be unbiased, because then you're downplaying/upplaying aspects to try and be less biased.
Anyway, I think a month long contest would be fine, maybe get some more polished/ambitious games out of it. I do still like the Oasis system, but I think I would have to put a twist on it, as I believe I already talked about. Ranking all the games with a score 1-10 and then getting a average score to determine the winner. | |
Outside of that, anyone disagree with April? I'd like to have everyone on a level playing field.
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Sounds good to me. I'm hyped :)
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I miss 4Ks, myself.
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Is this a serious thing? If it's a serious thing I'll be down.
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Lummox JR wrote:
I miss 4Ks, myself. I would love for something like this, spend more time worrying about the size of it rather than flooding it full of features lol. | |
Anonymous entry uploads would help, of course the system could retain the entrants BYOND key, however, no one else would know. That's how I'd do it.
If you're down to hold the contest I'm sure we could work together to get a web interface up for uploading and voting (DMCGI might help :P or the web client). I also may offer Just Cause 3 as a prize for the winner. | |
A.T.H.K wrote:
Anonymous entry uploads would help, of course the system could retain the entrants BYOND key, however, no one else would know. That's how I'd do it. I'd call it Kozuma3 | |
Kozuma3 wrote:
A.T.H.K wrote: I'd not oppose that name. | |
I've also got 2 gifts for Sins Of Solar Empire: Rebellion I can give away too.
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