oh you are and you didnt answer my question
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oh its not locked anymore huh?
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So, like. I'm confused.
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Just carry on with your days. The thread has been cleaned up. That's all.
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FKI wrote:
I'm wondering where you guys draw the line between copying and inspiration. What would Avidanimefan have to change in Ki Warriors for it not to be considered a copy? (The blue dragonballs come to mind, but outside of that, what else? The line between copying and taking inspiration is hard to define, but easy to feel/see. If a game "feels" like a cheap knock-off of something else, that's probably a sign that your concept isn't developed enough. On the other hand, just reminding you of something else isn't enough I think, to be a bad thing. Like I said, the line is all but impossible to define until you've got a specific example. In the case of Ki Warriors, I'd say that the races are a pretty major issue. They are just renamed Namek, Yardrat, Saiyan, and Human. Down to the exact visual style of the anime for each.  In dragonball, what do we know about the Yardrat? They wear funny clothes of a particular style and are very skilled at using a skill that will instantly teleport you to any ki signature you recognize anywhere in the universe.  ^The visual style of the Weab is more or less identical to this image. The description of the Weab: "A curious race that holds many powerful ki manipulation techniques, among them the power to instantly travel across the cosmos." Then there's the "Gila". They use the same visual style as this image:  Nameks in Dragonball are known for being peaceful but strong warriors who are an agrarian society. Piccolo and Kami in particular are often known for their ability to magically create clothing and weapons and Kami frequently creates magical artifacts using his powers. The description of the Gila: "A peaceful yet powerful race, the Gila are industrious and can survive most anywhere. Noted for their magic abilities to craft items." Saiyans are known as powerful warriors due to their zenkai which gives them a strong combat potential boost when they are beaten in battle. They wear the clothing/armor of the Planet Trade Organization. See this image for reference:  The clothing/hairstyle of the "Primus" race is a direct copy of the above images. The description of the Primus race: "A group of people who love to battle, a warrior race. They have fearsome untapped combat potential." And then there's the Humes. The Humes use a classic Shorin/Shaolin gi in the classic orange/blue colors that are so characteristic of Dragonball:  TL;DR: The line between paying homage and blatantly and disrespectfully ripping something off is extremely obvious when you see it in action, but hard to define in abstract. I think I've made my case for which of the two we're talking about here, though. I wouldn't be arrogant enough to tell Avid what he should change, but I could offer suggestions. For starters, coming up with his own visual style and creating his own background setting without laying on the Dragonball carboncopy so thick. It doesn't have to be original for the sake of being original, but it just can't be such a blatant take-away as it is. | |
Ter13 wrote:
It doesn't have to be original for the sake of being original, but it just can't be such a blatant take-away as it is. Felt this needed repeated. Everyone making these 'based on ____' games should take the advice. I don't care when someone makes a fangame, if it's of quality. However, making something blatantly being a fangame and trying to pass it off as original because they made very tiny changes, is disrespectful. It insults the IP owners, in stealing their work; The players, by insulting their intelligence in calling it original and saying it's not a ripoff. I had more, but lost my train of thought. It's the same thing people are doing(dragon ki) by saying it's not a rip and that it's it's own game. | |
I say if you're going to make something closely resembling DBZ, just go balls out and make it DBZ. But with the C&D paranoia everywhere, its understandable why no serious developers are willing to work on something like that.
The DBZ franchise makes for god awful RPGs, but it does other genres very well which it seems like almost no one here has thought about. Why doesn't someone develop a DBZ style arcade fighter? Or hell, even a MOBA. That would be pretty cool. It doesn't have to be true to canon as long as it's fun. | |
Kats wrote:
I say if you're going to make something closely resembling DBZ, just go balls out and make it DBZ. But with the C&D paranoia everywhere, its understandable why no serious developers are willing to work on something like that. Well said. Once I was working on a game inspired by DBZ but the longer we worked on it, the more it turned into an obvious knockoff. I would have rather just went the extra step and called it what it was. The DBZ franchise makes for god awful RPGs, but it does other genres very well which it seems like almost no one here has thought about. Why doesn't someone develop a DBZ style arcade fighter? Or hell, even a MOBA. That would be pretty cool. It doesn't have to be true to canon as long as it's fun. I think it makes for a decent RPG, if done right ( just like everything else ). The issue, around here at least, is that nobody has strayed away from Zeta and continue "one upping" their competition by adding a recolored attack, a fandom transformation, or increasing the gains and gain rates. As for an arcade fighter, Legend Of The Dragonballs is making it's return. Here are screenshots provided by the game's developer. | |
I would play LotD. So long as the gameplay is well balanced and the attack kits for each character were fun and intuitive, i feel like i would have a blast. I love that smash bros style chaos.
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Well ima say this im the pixel artist and co owner for Ki warriors and a lot of the clothing choices was my idea and characters.All ima say is don't make blind assumptions about a game u never played it.Just because that NNaaaaaHH guy says something don't just run with it. Every player that has taken at least 30 mins to learn the game can see how great combat and coding is and to say that its a rip is a big jump yes it has dbz inspired feel and if u have seen skills in action u would see its much different. And as for making money ur assuming that its all to make a lot of money rather than keep the game on a good non lag host and its the most balanced of any game u will play. its not pay to win. Sorry to say i get what ur saying but ur going hard on something that's moving in the right direction. Don't continue to jump on bandwagons because u believe only 100% original game are better cause they don't exists.Every game is like another game in some way. And the funny part is if it was any other anime u would say nothing like sao
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I think it can be best summed up with the line: "Don't bet on a losing horse." Ter and many other people here have just never seen a well done DBZ "inspired" game and after years and years of disappointment, we just don't get excited when someone announces the next ambitious project in the lineup.
Ki Warriors can be the "best of BYOND's DBZ games" but the very problem is that all games seem to just compare themselves to other BYOND games. They never even attempt to reach into higher territory. Until we see a game that completely breaks the paradigm of the "Standard BYOND DBZ RPG", no one is going to get excited. | |
That is what is being implied no matter how u spin it. not a rip in the sense of Byond game rip but as a Anime knock off. Like as a fan of alot of different animes some of my races might be inspired by them like if u seen are line up one of the races has a flame on his head because i like the look of Tsuna from hitman reborn. But even if i had all 100% original races people will still find something to say they look like or that u can fly and shoot stuff out ur hands so it clearly dbz.Like do u really think people on these forums will say is not a dbz game if we change there clothes and looks if we do that they will say its clearly street fighter or another fighting game im just saying i get what ur saying but NNaaahh cam of disrespectful talking about how the game is bad and he played it. and if he did he really didnt he logged on then punched air and left this isnt a self trainer its build to make player active with a very different combat system
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what are u even talking about my game was called bad and until u play it i feel that people should watch what they say. I can take constructive criticism but not disrespect. And its more so respect for avid's coding then my art thats why i tend to stay off forums. iv been on byond for about 7 years and forums have always had trolls that ruin topics, u seem proud of that witch i dont get. i was simply defending the fact that u should play a game then comment and that only dbz games have a bad stigma because of of the history of self training rips. But we listen to that put out a action rpg version with everything everyone complains about them not having and still get this
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@ Kats:
Well.. I think it's easy to say things like that when you haven't really even tried or checked out the game. Truth is the only thing about it that resembles DBZ is some of the character likenesses and themes. But lets get to the heart of the matter. It features an original story, aspects of game play that you don't see or hear about in DBZ, and quite a few other things. I think what most people consider DBZ copying is really just normal stuff that most games have. Most games/animes have skills, transformations or power buffs of some type, quests, combat, explosions, gravity-etc.(HxH, Sailor Moon, One Punch Man, Inuyasha, Parasyte,and a host of others, including real life movies as well.)  Pictured above is One Punch Man. The character design is heavily based on Piccolo from DBZ. @Ter13's TL DR (Since I'm allowed to talk to you now,I guess?) This is something I got into a discussion with a few other people about as well- I don't think you guys understand the difference between an original work, and a rip. Somewhere along the lines, things got blurred for most people in this community-and rightly so. So to reinterate- Ki warriors is 100% Original. Does it pay homage to DBZ? Yea. But so does practically every other anime in existence that is related to combat, over the top fighting and energy blasts. The fact that it's based on 2-3 pieces of DBZ fan lore is simply to appeal to that crowd of people who play games like Dragon Ki. Dragon Ki would be an example of a "original rip" if there even is such a thing *of which I'm in agreement-with you guys-there really isn't such a thing* Ki Warriors was made as a bit of a social experiment to see what people like about those types of games. Also..the game isn't made for people like you-if it's generating this much discussion I'd say it's doing it's job. It's created for people specifically who like "those kinds of games". The idea is to "wean" them away from the dark side. More to the point though, this argument will/can be had til the end of time. Next you'll be telling me that Suuko Faita is a blatant dbz rip-since it is heavily inspired by DBZ, borrows some of the same character designs-slightly editted, and applies some of the themes inherent with DBZ.From what Branks showed me last time we spoke. Better yet, next you'll tell me that every RPG has copied off of D&D and they should all stop doing what they are doing. Where does the nonsense really stop?  Well Kats. I guess you better stop production. You're making an RPG based on text. You can't do that. It's against the rules. The law specifically states (albeit a flimsy law) that- if one of you wanted to make a game, as long as it was completely your work you could make art that looks exactly like another person's and change a few minor things about it--and it would be perfectly legal. In regards to the art : I do have my own art style I'm using for the game. It comes from here.  But more to the point- I haven't ever snubbed anyone's suggestions at all to my knowledge about how to improve any of my games. The thing is-much like a few of you are doing now-people here just don't give suggestions,(unless they are trying to suck up or have something to gain),what they do is go on tirades about what should absolutely be changed or how it should be this. That's fine but-- if you have an idea about how a game should be, you and NNAAAAHH could just make your own you know? Aside from that I find it a bit weird that you both had DBZ games ( In NNAAAAHH's case his apparently got shut down but was pretty popular from what I'm told.) And yours just disappeared or whatever. Yet-my game isn't even using any DBZ Characters, is creating it's own lore for the world, it's own items, new features that don't even exist in DBZ--and suddenly it's an issue? See the contrast I'm trying to make here? It just seems like you two are missing a few grains of salt from that shaker. I'll also make this perfectly clear. I have 0 intention of ever changing Ki Warriors art style, nor changing it's status from Original Game to Fangame. Any other suggestions you have about improving the game are more than welcome, but as of now I haven't gotten even a single one. If you have to suggest something publicly, it's not a suggestion at all, it's more of a way to stir the pot. That's just my take on it. I'm not really going to devote anymore time to this "discussion". -Avid | |
Lmfao, for real though.