In response to Kats
TIL - If I don't consider a game a game, I can tell people it sucks and make a blanket statement about them.

Games are an art form, and even if fedora-wearing chumps think that they can tell you what makes a game good, at the end of the day it's the player that decides whether or not a game is good. And it logically follows that if many people play a game, many people think that it's good, and that the critics saying that it's bad just have a differing opinion.

I think WoW is bad. But WoW is a titan in the RPG industry. So is WoW a bad game? To me, yes, to others, no. So what makes my judgement "the true judgement"? Hint: Nothing.
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
at the end of the day it's the player that decides whether or not a game is good. And it logically follows that if many people play a game, many people think that it's good, and that the critics saying that it's bad just have a differing opinion.

Okay, let's make another fun point. How many people does it take to play your game before you know that it's not just the community aspect, but the gameplay aspect that attracts people as well? 50? 100? 10 thousand? I suspect that number is a lot higher than you might think. Take SS13 for example. It's a clunky game with plenty of its own problems, but we're willing to overlook those issues because the community is engaging and fun.

Many fan games fall under the same umbrella, but here's the facts: No one who plays SS13 is trying to convince people that it's gameplay is the cutting edge. Everyone well understands that if it weren't for the community and culture it's created, it wouldn't exist. The difference is that so many game developers who happen to have more than 7 players online at one time think they're game is good. This is mixing the definitions of "good" and "popular". Using the SS13 example, a popular game does not necessarily have to be good or well designed. The fact of the matter is that many games don't poll why their players enjoy their game and get this inflated ego that somehow their gameplay is the shit.

No body here is debating the definition of a popular game, but the community will only take it so far. As much of an internet phenomenon that SS13 has become, it still only has ~400 players on the hub at any given time. For a popular game to explode into the realm of "good", it's going to require both a great community and gameplay design. If you're not willing to accept that, then good luck with your 20-count player base.
The problem we all have here (spectrum aside) is that people who think fan games really don't need huge overhauls are practically saying the Middle East did 9/11.

Those with programming skills and even further, game design knowledge and experience are just sitting here dumb founded trying to explain the simple fact that jet fuel cannot melt steel beams.


Wake up sheeple, and stay woke.
I agree, how does hitting a building at the top cause a massive explosion at the bottom

Checkmate, atheists

#ControlledDemolitionConfirmed
In response to Rocknet
No body here is debating the definition of a popular game, but the community will only take it so far. As much of an internet phenomenon that SS13 has become, it still only has ~400 players on the hub at any given time. For a popular game to explode into the realm of "good", it's going to require both a great community and gameplay design. If you're not willing to accept that, then good luck with your 20-count player base.

Are we both looking at front page? I see 70+ people on 2 different fangames, 100+ on one of them. Just because YOU think a fangame could use improvements in X, Y, and Z, it doesn't mean that your suggestions are actually any good.

So in short, point me to a game you think is bad and list why and I'll find someone that thinks it's good. Because ART IS APPRECIATED BY ITS BEHOLDER. THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL ART STANDARD.

(7.8/10 - too much water)
I haven't played those games, but I'm guessing they aren't just Self Train Simulator 2015. There's undoubtedly more to them, even if the self train verb exists. Maybe it's a thriving RP environment, I don't know.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as a video game, is in fact, masturbation, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, interactive stimulation. A video game is not an interaction unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning masturbation system made useful by the masturbation elites, e-peen utilities and finger system components comprising a full wank as defined by the Golden Toilet himself.

Many video gamers wank a modified version of the masturbation system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of masturbation which is widely used today is often called “a video game”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the masturbation system, developed by the Masturbation Project. There really is a video game, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.

A video game is the stimulus: the circle-jerk in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other stimulus that you run. The circle-jerk is an essential part of the stimulation, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete interactive wank. A video game is normally used in combination with the masturbation circle-jerk: the whole system is basically masturbation with video game added, or interactive masturbation. All the so-called “video game” wanks are really circle-jerking of interactive masturbation.
In response to Lugia319
In response to Rocknet

But, you were quoting Kats' post!


Anyway, I just don't understand video games as an art. I understand they use art, so then they must be art. Much like two people mix their sexual parts and grind and whatever (however sex works I guess), these people made a person....

But I don't want to believe any of it It seems true, sure but okay I don't believe it.

It's like Apple's new "Living Picture" it's not video, it's not GIF (or Webm) it's a picture or whatever (however pictures work I guess).

You're being Apple right now, but like, without the money and influences, and whatever (however Apple works I guess).
In response to Rocknet
No, video games have literally been defined as an art form in response to a case that was taken to the United States Supreme Court on a case regarding censorship if my memory doesn't fail me. And rightly so because what is a video game but an interactive movie? What is a movie but a sequence of pictures? What is a picture, but a piece of art?

@Neblim I do not agree with your interpretation but I respect it.

See how easy it is to discuss art?
I was at an art museum in DC a few months back, and they had a printed out fortran program on display.
Being a developer of a fangame as well as two original games (One project of my own, another that I'm helping my cousins and other close friends with, both of which are being made in Unreal Engine), I believe a good fan-made game is one that sticks well with the original IP, but enhances the gameplay to make it unique. None of the auto training games do that (in my personal opinion), which is kind of sad in my eyes. But on my opinion again, I make my fangame because it makes me happy to see people who like my ideas for a premade series put into action, and because it gives me something to focus on when I have programmer's block on my original projects.
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