Lugia319 wrote:
Because someone might listen. I'm an optimistic person, dontchaknow Objection, subjective. Based off 100% of anything you've ever written on these forums you seem generally pessimistic, negative and uninformed. But this isn't about shit-flinging. Stop derailing threads, and now I'm caught up in it too. Apologies, I'm done. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
They just see "BYOND SUCKS" and say, "Lugia, you're being a tosser." Probably because you are, in fact, being a tosser. On another note, when writing tosser at first, my phone auto corrected to toddler, which happens to be equally true. Unity has:This has been discussed. BYOND has this capability too, stop being petty and selective. 2. Server-side/client-side processing that you can controlI can't argue with this point. I do wish we had networking options that were more customizable. 3. No shenanigans of going through BYOND keysKeys are completely optional. I've already mentioned that they're sub par compared to actual user ID systems using email and usernames for example. 4. Quality resourcesThat's heavily subjective. Many communities have a huge bulk of poor resources compared to relatively few "good" ones. Don't wear those blinders too tight. 5. Good communityIt's been discussed the fact that our community is no worse than anyone else's. You want to find a dev community without toxicity, best of luck, Chuck. 6. Base language(s) is(are) marketable.C# and C++ are more marketable simply because they're not specific to game development. Also, good luck teaching them with any efficiency to a complete novice with any sense of expedition. The learning curve for brand new developers is far steeper than DM. BYOND has:A simpler language, easy tools to get a project working quickly, the DMI system is stupid easy to use, Tiling, layering and rendering are all built in and handled by default and the language is easy enough to be learned quickly by new developers but powerful enough to be viable for just about any project people will undertake on the site. | |
Unfortunately, Lugias been a regular troll for years. How he hasn't been permabanned yet is beyond me. The only reason he stays on the website is to try pushing people away from BYOND because his attitude caused everyone to resent him, not to mention the fact that he's never actually done anything while he's here and blames it on the tools being substandard. If this is hard ball for him, it's laughable that he pretends to be productive anywhere else in development.
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Keys are not optional. If you want to take your game off-site (which I encourage you to do) you have to go through BYOND's keys. You can get around this of course, by abstracting it away from the user and using some sort of guest key access, but like I've said before - why go through the hassle.
Actually no, quality resources might seem subjective, but there actually is a standard that BYOND doesn't hold up to. Look at C++, Python, (Unity) all have resources that are better maintained and easier to access. For instance, if you search how to do savefiles on BYOND, you get a $#@! ton of resources, very few of which are actually useful. You do it with literally any other language, and they tell you how to read/write files clearly. You want to find a dev community without toxicity, best of luck, Chuck. See: Unity C# and C++ are more marketable simply because they're not specific to game development. Also, good luck teaching them with any efficiency to a complete novice with any sense of expedition. The learning curve for brand new developers is far steeper than DM. Precisely why you should learn those languages instead. Why use a wrench when you can have a pocket-knife that has a wrench? A simpler language, easy tools to get a project working quickly, the DMI system is stupid easy to use, Tiling, layering and rendering are all built in and handled by default and the language is easy enough to be learned quickly by new developers but powerful enough to be viable for just about any project people will undertake on the site. All fair, but the one thing you never consider is that in the span of someone learning a language, getting good at it, they won't need someone to hold their hand anymore. It's just better to have the C#, C++, Java, Python, ANY OTHER LANGUAGE basis because it can be extended while DM is only good for... DM | |
You don't need a community to develop your own games. Sure it's nice to have support, but a toxic community isn't going to stop you from getting things done.
BYOND's language is quite wonderful in my opinion and I have been able to do things with it that I never thought possible. Check out this video: That is an old project I started that I'm still in the process of refining. The idea here was to create a 3D viewer for an already created game rather than having to rewrite it in Unity. So it would run the very same BYOND game, just using Unity to display the graphics in 3D. With more refinements, I can have it display actual models. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using BYOND with other programs to break out of any limitations. Like Lugia said, Unity is a great tool, but I always go back to BYOND. Ideas like this and more are possible especially with the webclient at hand now too. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
The difference between you and I is that I never bother trying to be nice. And honestly, I'm not sure anyone is even reading my posts. They just see "BYOND SUCKS" and say, "Lugia, you're being a tosser". Here's the objective list of stuff I've said (in this thread) that Unity has over BYOND Wait a minute...weren't you just saying in a post not too long ago that byond had a 100$ fee and unity was completely free? Hmmm, seems like somebody is just subtly Byond Bashing. | |
Ishuri wrote:
That is an old project I started that I'm still in the process of refining. The idea here was to create a 3D viewer for an already created game rather than having to rewrite it in Unity. So it would run the very same BYOND game, just using Unity to display the graphics in 3D. With more refinements, I can have it display actual models. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using BYOND with other programs to break out of any limitations. Like Lugia said, Unity is a great tool, but I always go back to BYOND. Ideas like this and more are possible especially with the webclient at hand now too. This is what we need, collaboration not deterioration! All we are asking lugia is, is to stop bashing and find the common grounds just like Ishuri has pointed out! I am really interested in that Ishuri; It reminds me of Wurm Online's 2D to fake3d map. This would be VERY interesting for Pondera!!! I am totally into it. | |
Rushnut wrote:
*Like* It runs all BYOND code as per usual, it's job is just to display what you would normally see on BYOND's screen on a separate Unity screen (that you would overlay over BYOND's screen to cover all the 2Dness) as a 3D game. | |
It needs the 3d models in unity to display the byond game, right? Or does it simply somehow show the graphics from Byond?!
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AERProductions wrote:
It needs the 3d models in unity to display the byond game, right? Or does it simply somehow show the graphics from Byond?! It just simply shows the graphics from BYOND, (you would have to code this in your BYOND game to communicate with Unity though). Ideally my goal is to have Unity look for already made 3D models to display, like you said. So for every movable you would have to do something along the lines of
model = '3d_model.obj'
A simple change in what I already have can accomplish this. I do plan on releasing it all once it's completed. | |
Guys. Developer Help.
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I'm gonna move this to the On Topic section, since it's growing a little broad for Dev Help.
As to the topic, most engines are a trade-off between simplicity and power. BYOND is a good starting point for making your own games, because it handles a lot of the boiler-plate stuff for you. This allows you to more quickly jump into the "fun" parts of game development: the mechanics specific to YOUR game! However, that comes with the trade-off of less customization. For example, BYOND completely handles networking for you, but the ability to run client-side code is limited. With Unity, you can have complete control over what runs on the client, but that's because you'll be writing the networking yourself. It's also true that the DM language is uniquely useful on BYOND. However, the concepts behind any object-oriented languages are very transferable, and if you can learn DM, you can more quickly pick up C++, C#, python, ect when the need arises. I would say try it and see if you like it, and ask any specific questions that come up in the process. BYOND is pretty quick to get something up and running in, so even you don't want to ship a game with it, some people have found it a useful tool for prototyping multiplayer games. <edit> Oh wow, this thread got so off-topic, I got the actual topic wrong. Sounds like Misticone is already familiar with both engines, so I would say pick the one you like best, or best fits your game idea. BYOND is capable of being distributed on Steam, as has been mentioned (see: NEStalgia). | |
@ D.C. above -- Your post was great! Nothing to worry about, haha. I agree with what you said. DM has made it so that I can easily read other languages and have at least some partial understanding to their functions.
Ishuri wrote: AERProductions wrote:
model = '3d_model.obj'
A simple change in what I already have can accomplish this. I do plan on releasing it all once it's completed. Well if you are interested, I would be willing to handsomely reward you for assisting me in making Pondera 3d. That would make my (and probably a lot of others) dreams come true! It would be amazing. | |
I have my doubts on using Unity to render DM 3D over outright using Unity 3D. I feel like the process of sending information back and forth to render would really slow things down. On top of that, you don't escape BYOND's server/client-side processing.
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Lugia319 wrote:
I have my doubts on using Unity to render DM 3D over outright using Unity 3D. I feel like the process of sending information back and forth to render would really slow things down. On top of that, you don't escape BYOND's server/client-side processing. All correct, I mainly did this for two reasons - The first being, I really like the BYOND engine. Call it stubborn, but I grew up on it, and I love seeing it grow and I want to grow with it. This allowed me to continue programming on BYOND while continuing work on Unity. And you're 100% right on outright using Unity being better, however, I, personally, prefer using BYOND and merging the two just felt great to me. The second reason being, simply because I do not look forward to rewriting games that I've already high hopes for. Meaning, I have no intention of porting it over to a different engine at the moment, so this would end up working out pretty well for me. I do have to perform further testing to see what the limitations of the viewer is as well. I remember testing it with a lot more objects than in the video, but I'd have to really try and break it. | |
Hey, thank you all for helping me. Byond's community is really good, thanks for helping me. I don't think that Lugia is Byond Bashing. He/She is just trying to express his/her opinion on this matter. Lugia isn't saying that Byond is bad, he/she is just wondering its efficiency when compared to Unity.
Wow nice work Ishuri, your project looks really good. I'm just curious about how unity replaces a 2d icon with a 3d one. I mean, how can Unity convert a square to a cube (for example)? Some of you said that I should only worry about the game marketing when the game is done. I completly disagree. A game has to be planned before you actually start building it. A house has to be designed before it is built. Same goes with games. You have to plan your game before starting. Sorry for posting this on the dev help. Thanks again for helping me and putting so much dedication on this post. Thank you all, you are a great community. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
"Lugia, you're being a tosser". Only people who claim this is a tosser: Kats wrote: What it is is a powerful stepping stone that's not nearly as scary or daunting as Unity and languages like C# or C++ to the brand new developers. Period. Thus I agree. C/C++. Path to being competent and/or professional. You were doomed to fail from the start then. M for mature. Making a calculator will make your eyes bleed. Unity/C#. Path to building the sandbox, Lego style. T for teen. May be the edgy hipster that appeals to other hipsters. Byond/DM? Living and playing house in the urinated sandbox. E for everyone. 10 Sand castles out of 10. | |
Maybe you misunderstood my comment.
Why even try and argue if nobody is going to listen to you fullstop.