Yeah, but it doesn't really answer my question:

What is the gameplay purpose behind locking players into focused builds, but asking them to customize their character "correctly"?

oh but they do start of directional

I'll give an example of what I think is a good method. I give the player choice in the builds. Does he want to be defense, does he want to go all damage, or all magic range based attacks? Can all be viable with all classes in my game. So you can choose a class and still have some variety within stats of the same class. Of course I've also added perks to further increase variaty.

there is place for hybrids as fort the gameplay choice it isnt that is reccomended that they dont but you know alls to ones own i guess.

answer: flexability

to choose which build suit you best however as i said before its HIGHLY recommended to not be a magic user when you picked a strength class it wont penalize you but it Will constrain you.

At this point, why not just use the Elder Scrolls solution? Give a very basic character and just let the player develop their character naturally, without limiting to classes.

its a bit harder to explain if your not familair with naruto and how the clans work bascially that what i based my system around

The thing with MOBAs though is that the most optimal strategies come from the community and not the developers. When they released League of Legends, they didn't say "send 2 people bot, one mid, one top, and one jungle". That's what the players, after hundreds upon thousands of games, decided was the most optimal route to take.

If the development team stepped in and said "Ok, we're taking away an AD tank's freedom to purchase AP items", there'd be an outrage of colossal proportions. Riot isn't here to force us to play the game a certain way. Unlike SS13, we're not given a strict set of rules ( outside of rules regarding our behavior ) as to how and what we play. They're just here to make sure the game is as balanced as possible. Not balanced in the sense that you can build 6 Doran blades and deal more damage than someone with an actual recommended build, but balanced in that each champion and role has strengths and weaknesses.

If they took the freedom away, the meta would never change. The only reason we have things like Blue Ezreal, or Shyvana running Smite in the top lane, is because Riot's stance is "if that's what you want do to, then do it", so players experimented and discovered those were viable strategies. Unless a particular action is against the rules ( i.e. killing someone for no reason in SS13 ), there's no reason to try and prevent a player from ever doing it.

With the huge rise in popularity in sandbox games nowadays, I thought it'd be common sense to everyone by now that people don't want to be told how to play their games. Jumping in and designing your game in a way that forces a player to choose an optimal build, or dumbing the game down to the point where whatever the player decides to do yields perfect results, is just another form of insulting the player's intelligence. You're literally suggesting that your players will be so clueless that they'll do something stupid, like invest stat points into 2-handed sword abilities as a mage. Even if it isn't optimal, WHO CARES? If they want to dick around, let them dick around as long as it's not ruining another player's experience ( like when people play dungeon instances and roll need on equipment they can't actually equip ).

People are smart enough to discover what works and what doesn't through trial and error. The changes I hate in League of Legends, or any MOBA for that matter, is when they do their "clarity" updates, which is just their way of saying "you guys are retarded, so we need to make this obvious game even more obvious because there's no way you'll ever figure it out on your own".

One of these changes, for example, was when they released an update that made consecutive turret shots on any one target larger than the last to further convey to the player that they were being dealt increased damage. Now, any person with half a brain could see that the 2nd and 3rd turret shot did more damage than the first. The change was unnecessary. Another great is example is the fact that Riot refused to ever add an ultimate like Bloodseeker's from Dota 2, which is essentially an ability that causes the target to take damage whenever they move. When you first encounter this ability, you will usually die from it. This is because typically when you're fighting, you're tunnel visioning a high-priority enemy, and not really paying attention to your own character, which means Bloodseeker could apply this debuff to you and you'd keep walking anyway. Even if you did see Bloodseeker cast his ultimate onto you, your first or 2nd time experiencing it would still be confusing because you might assume you're taking damage from a DoT he put on you, when in reality you were dying because you were trying to run away from him.

HOWEVER, eventually after playing with and against Bloodseeker, you will learn exactly how his ability works. Sometimes you'll get ulted by Bloodseeker, and then another enemy will stun you causing you to stop moving, which will also stop you from taking damage from Bloodseeker's ultimate. Or other times you'll stop moving, but Bloodseeker will activate Force Staff, which is an item that when activated will push your target 600 units in whichever direction they are facing. If the enemy is low enough, pushing them 600 units ahead will cause Bloodseeker's debuff to deal damage ( because they are moving ) and kill them. I'd like to assume that in these situations, the player is smart enough to draw conclusions and learn how the game works. "I stopped taking damage from Bloodseeker's ultimate after Sven stunned me in place. I guess Bloodseeker's ultimate doesn't do any damage as long as I'm not moving."

Some players like a challenge anyway. Some players actually get a kick out of using strategies that are generally viewed as bad so they can prove how skilled they are when they still win. There are people who play SSB or Street Fighter and intentionally main the "low tier" characters and then blow everyone's mind when they actually perform extremely well with them. Or the development team could step in and say "Um, sorry but Bowser is a garbage character, we're deleting him because you're not allowed to play things we think are garbage". It's why I enjoyed Half-Life 2. Because I didn't have those asshat pop ups telling me what to do and where to go, and when I figured something out, I felt good about it. That game proved players don't need you to hold their hand every step of the way. Hell, by this logic, Valve may as well just removed the ability to use the crowbar in that game, because it's obviously a better idea to use your gun during combat, so once you acquire a firearm, the crowbar should've just disappeared from your inventory.

Teach players the basics then leave them to their own devices.

The only thing I've gotten from skimming the last few posts on this after Eagle Senpai linked it in Ganite's post is that no one has really answered Ter, or completely gotten what he was trying to get at. At least I believe they haven't.

His question is why you're allowed to spend stat points in your magical stat if it doesn't benefit your character in anyway.

For example - You decide to pick a strength based class. I'll use the classic Templar class as the core idea. Using stat points on strength would allow you to further your damage with autos, and various spell you use. However in most games spending stat points in the magical stat would allow you to increase your shields/heals/buffs on yourself and allies. Thus the reason for the ability to level both the magical and strength stat.

In this situation - You decide to pick a strength based class. I'll use the Taijutsu(Melee) specialist. Why is it possible to spend points into your Ninjutsu(Magical) stat when your autos, and every single skill you will inevitably obtain uses only the Taijutsu(Melee) stat? It's as if investing into the Ninjutsu(Magical) stat did nothing but raise your level by one number, and left everything else the same.

In otherwords you gained no advantage of leveling up in the slightest(Aside from HP/Stamina/MP gains and the such). A level 25 with the stats of a 24.

So what he was asking is - Why is it possible to level up a stat that is irrelevant to your character's customization or progression. At least I assume that based on the fact I think he's trying to get across the point that he needs to rethink the character design and progression in his game. The goal was hopefully to make him come to that conclusion on his own though. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ter-Sensei.

I'll put it in League of Legends terms(Because I saw ET head his post with it), and Naruto terms(For the game owner).

LoL/ET - The question was essentially: What's the benefit of giving Katarina the option of building Tear of the Goddess, and MP pots; when Katarina doesn't have mana to begin with? As well as what would be the point of giving her a Mana bar, when she doesn't use mana?

There are obviously a few different answers: To build into other items later, to allow the player to learn whats efficient and what isn't, and to allow it possible on other champions who may use more than one stat.

To build into other items - Tear of Goddess is a very useless item on Katarina. So are all the items it builds into. However the items it builds into do have stats that will apply to Katarina and give her something useful(AP).

However in the game that we were talking about this would never be the case. Investing in the Magical stat will never reward a Melee player because the Magical stat won't give a Melee boost, and the Melee class will never use a skill based off the Magical stat.

To allow players to learn whats efficient and inefficient - Again Tear is a rather useless item on Katarina that can turn into something useful. Yet is it more Efficient than buying a Luden's Echo instead? Building wrong will show you how to build right in League. That's one reason their game design works.

However, again in the game were talking about that would never be the case as in an rpg/mmo inspired game you don't get to rebuild your character from scratch every 20-60 minutes. I highly doubt any of the players would like to rebuild consistently every week or so until they find whats most efficient.

Allow it to be possible for champions that use more than one stat - This is pretty straightforward if you've ever played League of Legends. Malphite will be the example since this one has nothing to do with Katarina. Malphite's role is a tank. Soak up damage. However, you can build him using AP items to allow your skills to do a bunch of damage; or you can build him using AD items to allow your auto attacks to do a bunch of damage.

This is really the pinnacle of Ter's point. Being able to level the magical stat(AP) or strength stat(AD) to still give benefits to the character you are playing; rather than being forced to build tank because your character had picked a tank class(Malphite's role).

Naruto/Game Owner- This will be pretty straightforward as it isn't as complex as the LoL explanation. Why give Rock Lee's class, the Taijutsu specialist the ability to level the Ninjutsu stat when none of his skills or attacks will ever use it considering he has no Ninjutsu to begin with? It's the same when flipped for Gaara's class. He has no Taijutsu, so why allow him to level the stat?

Now if you wanted flexibility, and this is just a general direction to start in; you would make it possible for specific Taijutsu moves to use the Ninjutsu stat as well as the Taijutsu stat, and vice versa make some of Gaara's skills use the Taijutsu stat instead of just the Ninjutsu stat. Say his sand shuriken considering he has to throw them. This way Taijutsu doesn't only effect auto attacks for Ninjutsu based classes, and Ninjutsu isn't a complete waste for Taijutsu only classes. It allows for Hybrid builds to not be set in stone and by default be weaker than the specific path placed in front of them at the start. (I know this part isn't explained the best. I kind of had this post run on longer than expected and lost steam. So my apologies for that, but I think the point came across well).

Anyone's two cents to how I interpreted Ter's questions is welcomed. I'm just trying to bring the topic back to the point of the issue that was brought up, considering it seemed to have gone pretty off topic.