Builds don't change the experience. In MOBAs, each new character is a new identity. Just because your mage is a human instead of a dark elf in ESO, it doesn't make it a new character, just the same character with a different skin.

And how is a moba character not the same character but with a different skin? For example if they add any projectiles in the game. All of the characters that have one are using the same code just reskinned, with maybe slight bonuses here and there.

Now I know you don't play any MOBAs because there are very few instances of that

I'm not talking about race. I'm talking about abilities. Eso has more than enough Mage builds to have dozens mages that play differently. And when they put spell crafting in the game it'll become infinitely more possibilities.

OHHHHHHHHHH DANG. I USED A FIRE STAFF INSTEAD OF A THUNDER STAFF. HOLD THE ROPES, I THINK HE MIGHT BE GOING DOWN.

Spellcrafting won't create infinite possibilities, it'll create a finite number of possibilities of varying level. I have a pretty good idea of how they'll do it and it's not going to be that impressive.

The mechanical interactions are very varied. Consider Darius and Garen, two champions that look very similar.

They both have spin2win, but Darius spins 1 to apply a bleed mechanic. They both have a dunk, but Garen's dunk depends on enemy missing health and Darius dunk depends on bleed stacks. Garen is more of a "run and gun" character while Darius is a "bring them to you" character.

And League of Legends just distilled the formula. If you play DotA you'll find a much more varied gameplay between the characters and map.

You misunderstood what I meant when I said "of varying level". No matter what spells you craft, they're going to be the same spells, they're just going to be stronger or weaker compared to each other. The same spells, mind you.

You keep on playing your 1 game while I continue to play my well over 2*10^20 games.

I don't like mobas however I do like classes based multiplier games. Drawn to death looks amazing and plants vs zombies was a lot more fun than any moba I've tried

I was just trying to explain that all games are Grindy. It's which grind you like that makes it enjoyable. That was my point. But than you said mobas were special and yes you and the buddies you play with probably don't see it as a grind. But I do. Just trying to get the point that different things for different folks

Not all games are grindy. You keep mistaking gameplay for grind.

In MMORPGs, where a lot of experience is often tied up in quests and kills, "the grind" is getting to the level where you unlock all playable content. Since most MMOs don't view questing as part of the experience but an avenue to move the player from point A to point B, the kill/fetch quests are done to death. This means you spend a lot of time "grinding" to unlock all playable content.

In MOBAs, the only "grind" would be unlocking all of the characters. BUT WAIT. A lot of MOBAs allow you to play some number of their characters free of grind for limited time. So you can get the entire experience by just waiting. If that's not security, I don't know what is.

But i have taken apart the slang word myself and decided what that really meant. And too me it meant "content they didnt want to play but played through anyway for a reward"

That's not what the grind is. That's a trait associated with grinds, but it's not what the grind is itself. You can't just redefine terms because then I can also redefine terms and we don't get anywhere because we have no common point of reference.

Boring and repetitive gameplay isn't grinding, it's just a poorly designed game. Though grindy games are the sign of being poorly made (MMORPGs). A game can be grindy while having good design (Tales games) and a game have bad design with no grind (this one is harder to come up with because grinding usually comes with bad design).

The key difference is gameplay isn't the whole game, but a means to an end. If you look at a lot of good games, usually a lot of praise goes into the environment. People care more about a good story than you think. The Tales games have a lot of random encounters to the point where you just want to run from them all (Zubats!) but the story is so interesting and you never really have to grind to get to the next part of it (unless you avoid combat entirely) that it's okay for battle to be somewhat repetitive because the battle music is epic.

Mine wasn't even boss music, just battle music. But the series has a lot of great tunes. If you look at Tales of Phantasia, they have some of the greatest music I've ever heard in any game I've played.

And Tales Studio always comes out with high quality games. Excellent writing. The characters are interesting, they have engaging backstories, and they develop.