I gave you no examples to even correct me.
But now, let me correct you.
While some helpers like Lummox, and Tiberath(RIP) are direct, others like to add more to their help to feel better about themselves, and to put others down.
Jerk: A contemptibly obnoxious person.
In the mind of the common BYOND helper: http://prntscr.com/6wg6h3
So basically, it's that somebody that volunteers to do something, but is being a huge jerk while doing it, reminds you of some fat old hag with an attitude with nothing to do with her life.
Yea, criticism of one's actions = harassment! Duh.
Seriously, though, instead of discipline it is wiser to confront the user about what he did wrong. I'm on your side, Lugia. I always will be. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
That moment when ET misses Xirre's post about him. I saw his post. Then I realized how ridiculous it would be to respond to someone who takes a Developous thread seriously. On top of the fact that he was trolling in the exact same thread. Lol. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
I've had a handful of posts deleted myself. Usually for going off topic but in these derail contests who can resist? Nobody can resist. But nobody has the right to complain about moderators trying to keep a place clean. And you're obviously not reading. You're right. I'm caught. And I will continue on with this thread without reading the first few posts. Primarily because I'm a lazy bastard. My complaint isn't that posts are deleted. Then I obvious skimmed through this thread far too fast. It's a lack of clarity between what constitutes a lock instead of a deletion. They found a problem. They found a solution. If this bothers you so much that people are not notified, then how about a suggestion to have it say, "A moderator has deleted your post for: [reason]" which hides the name of the moderator? Because, frankly... with the amount of Trolls coming and going around here, I don't support the displaying of moderator's names anyhow. It's like BYOND is filled with children and the adults take the children's example by following their idiotic ways. One bastard I've seen recently is Nix. I already dislike him. He's a troll that doesn't even make sense. It's like he's a tumor. He spreads everywhere, even between my butt-cheeks. And it's not that it gets me mad. It's the fact that I never understand where he's getting to that make my brain just go, "wot? How wetawded kan jew bee?" At least be funny with your snide remarks and witty comebacks. You just sound plain dumb. Same thing goes with Bloo Thang. If anythang, I like GatewayRa, Developous, and ET over those idiots. Y'know? And it's that users are no longer modified of when their posts are deleted. I'm going to assume you meant notified? Yeah, read 2 responses above about the suggestion. I really don't care about the deletion right now; I just maintain that any time mod action occurs on your posts that you should be notified of when and why. Imagine walking into class one day and finding out that your thesis got rejected but they wouldn't tell you why and wouldn't give you any remarks. You probably care that your thesis got rejected, but not as much as WHY it got rejected. That's the issue I'm arguing here. I understand where you're coming from now. I just thought you were another loser trying to shake up the way things are ran around BYOND and ultimately destroy the community. Also, I've yet to see anyone argue against the change I've posted here, or how it would in any way not keep the same system we have in place while still giving users the WHY that I'm bothered about. I meant in general. Not about just mods deleting posts. Forgib me for lashing out on you bby. | |
Dakumonki wrote:
While some helpers like Lummox, and Tiberath(RIP) are direct, others like to add more to their help to feel better about themselves, and to put others down. Understandable. I have seen it in some cases where people have to point out, "That's basic stuff. You should know that. What an idiot." But I don't see it often. If you make the effort to learn the language and give a detailed explanation as to what you want fixed/done and also narrow down your code, and present it properly, and use proper grammar... one sec...
Pretty much any post I see that doesn't follow most of these gets ignored or trolled. This goes for anywhere on the forums as well. Especially in the grammar department. Want a few examples? I can name a few posts right off the bat. I'm sure you don't need me to though. | |
Lugia319 wrote:
Also, I've yet to see anyone argue against the change I've posted here, or how it would in any way not keep the same system we have in place while still giving users the WHY that I'm bothered about. This is kinda like the blogs situation. Everyone claimed we needed blogs back, but no one can provide instances in which the site as a whole was better back when we had blogs. This situation is pretty much the same. You're insisting that mods giving us feedback on deleted posts was somehow better, but do you have instances of this? Because I can show you like, a thousand examples of people getting feedback on their posts, and then the following discussion erupting into an all-out "screw the Nazi mods" flame war. The site wasn't any less toxic back when the mods were telling us why they were closing threads and deleting posts. Therefore, saying that somehow bringing that back would be extremely beneficial to our community is silly. Here is what I remember about mod feedback: 1. Mod deletes post 2. Person with his post deleted says "WTF, my post isn't [insert reason provided by mod here]" or "Empirez did [insert reason provided by mod here] too and his posts aren't deleted! no fair!" 3. Mod has to further explain his reasoning, which just further pisses off the person disputing the closed thread/deleted post because all they want to hear is "oh, you're right, I was out of line in deleting that post", and the mods almost never say that. I've seen Tom do it once and that's about it. 4. Person with deleted post calls the mod a "biased retard" or something along those lines. 5. Thread closed. The fact of the matter is, we're going to have a dysfunctional community regardless, so ultimately, it does not matter whether we're getting the feedback or not. | |
EmpirezTeam wrote:
"Empirez did [insert reason provided by mod here] too and his posts aren't deleted! no fair!" This was probably the second most popular response users have given me in the past. Although they never did link me the content in question. 4. Person with deleted post calls the mod a "biased retard" or something along those lines. #biasmod | |
You really didn't bother to read my first post because hey, the solution you suggested was LITERALLY THE SAME ONE I DID. Maybe I should've put a tl;dr but eh.
Also, dev help searches do very little. A lot of people ask the same question so trying to find which one actually has helpful information over suggesting that the user "read the manual" is a bit tiresome. Seriously, if "read the manual" is the goto answer, why do we just have that pop up automatically whenever someone posts something in dev help. EDIT: Also, blogs really did make the site better :< But now everyone uses game updates as their blog or art/sound as their blog so it's not much difference but I liked the different designs people put up and how your member page was really your member page. | |
How about when they give you a link and you don't use it? Not everyone learns to same, each and every human on this planet is different and if they aren't in college they're most likely doing what they're actually good at, their body's best task to do.
A-lot of the helpers don't really help you, but direct you to an outdated post and will be enraged if you don't use it. Is it really help then? If anyone was actually being helped to the point where I had nothing to say, BYOND would be in a better spot, more games would be released and the quality of them wouldn't be so bad. I'm sure if everyone could, they would sit back and just gain the wisdom of DM like most programmers have, but for some people that's impossible. Also, not everyone learns the same, that shows you how different people are. http://www.byond.com/forum/?post=1836544 If any help was being done he shouldn't have to do that. The real helpers don't know enough to put together everything, but I appreciate their effort. The ones with the wisdom, are usually stubborn and of-course don't feel like sharing, or just don't get how people are different.(Usually the ones to get smart) So it shows you in a pattern on what to label these people as, Jerks. | |
That's an entirely different problem. There are different ways to help different people. This is one of the bigger issues when it comes to public education. It treats people as one big package and if you don't happen to be in the middle of the curve you're wasting your time. Most students aren't paying attention because they know the material already or don't care. The other half are trying their hardest to keep up but can't. The solution is to adjust the teacher to the student but since there's a shortage of time/money/teachers, that's obviously not the best solution.
I personally feel that it's better to slowly advance your programming techniques, but people like Ter13 often dump code your way that either doesn't work (to "teach you to teach yourself") or are designed to be so useful that they miss the point of the question. So someone trying to use it sees that it works but are no better off than before because it doesn't help them make their own modules. | |
Somebody likes me learns through experience. By watching things tick and manipulating them or playing with it. Through that method I'm able to master it and create new things with it. Though it's not the most efficient way to do things; I'm able to express my creativity through the DM language by bringing what I want to life, and showing others, which is good enough to make them happy.
By the way, it's the same problem. There's too many secrets in this language regardless of it being 2015 and this being one of the first engines out. -Server Transitioning -Pixel Movement RPG's isn't a standard it's the most advanced thing, here. | |
How dare you question the competence of Ter13? Just who in the world do you think you are?
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I'm not suggesting Ter13 is incompetent. I'm suggesting that his methods are maybe not the best for people learning to program. There are a number of times when we've both posted in the same thread and the user has messaged me privately for help. It's like reading the code packages for C++ or something when really you just need to know the method, how to invoke it, and what it gives you.
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I use this community for times when I just need to lash out against people now. So far so good.
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It's not Ter13s fault your IQs are too low to fathom his brilliance.
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Lugia319 wrote:
You really didn't bother to read my first post because hey, the solution you suggested was LITERALLY THE SAME ONE I DID. Maybe I should've put a tl;dr but eh. I typically don't. This isn't battle of the book publishers. This is the BYOND forums. Get to the point. Although, longer posts do look pretty tasty. So, it's still fine. I occasionally read long posts. But, I don't have all day to do so. I had class in about 30 mins or so and wanted to just give a quick reply. Even if it is half-assed. A tldr would have surely helped the situation. Because then I wouldn't even be here writing. But now I am here. And I will continue replying. So, yeah. *shrugs* Also, dev help searches do very little. Searches do very little for people who don't know how to search. When I am told to google search how to solve a problem in Ruby or C# (back when I literally dipped my toenail in to C#, my toe wasn't even wet. Just the nail), I literally just snap. Because I have no idea where to start. After I understood C# a bit more, it became easy to search for things and come up with a solution. So easy that I never ask people for help anymore. I can find documentation and I can find already-made scripts that I can use as references to solve my issue. The same thing applies to BYOND. If you're a newbie who doesn't know jack squat about BYOND, you won't find what you want because you won't know the proper keywords to do just that. I find all of my answers in either the documentation or forums. Well, most of them. I'd say around 80% now. Whereas, the other 20% is just me programming after being up for so long with a dead brain where I can't see that I missed changing a simple variable on a certain line or I used a different variable that was close, or I forgot a parameter and the compiler doesn't want to yell at me for it (this one happened recently when I used copytext() and forgot to add in the second range... it won't warn you because it's a logical error). The other 20% is just my way of being lazy and not solving it myself. Aren't I getting off-topic here? I just realized. A lot of people ask the same question so trying to find which one actually has helpful information over suggesting that the user "read the manual" is a bit tiresome. Seriously, if "read the manual" is the goto answer, why do we just have that pop up automatically whenever someone posts something in dev help. My answer to this is that you should read the documentations. Read read read. Do I condone the reading of the entire documentation in and out? Hell no. So, what do I do? I find the procedure for them, tell them briefly how it is used, and instruct them to create the logic for using it. And, for extra measures, I link to procedure to them from the documentation so they can read up on it themselves and check out any related procedures that may change their mind on how to go about things. If you get in to the habit of knowing how to find your own stuff in the one place that has all the answers, you'll get in to the habit of becoming a world-renowned programmer that can develop the matrix and save us all from reality. Don't we all want that? So, let's not spoonfeed the scrubs and start directing them on how to find things themselves. And maybe, just maybe, give them a little push when they can't understand something. EDIT: Also, blogs really did make the site better :< But now everyone uses game updates as their blog or art/sound as their blog so it's not much difference but I liked the different designs people put up and how your member page was really your member page. I liked having a page I could call my own that housed all of my stuff. But, I don't care about it anymore. I have a website now and I can put everything I want on it. Pretty soon I'll be building some of my projects in WebGL and throwing those bad boys on there to be played by many. :) | |
EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:
I use this community for times when I just need to lash out against people now. So far so good. It used to be my stress reliever after a long day since I used to get a good laugh at the hilarious things that happens around here. Like the time I was in a call with Toby and he did this: http://www.byond.com/forum/?post=1690131#comment12253868 - Loved it. I used to get a good laugh out of these forums. But, lately... all I see now is a bunch of idiots that don't have anything to offer. I don't mind trolling. But when it's just you being stupid and not even remotely funny... then you're just taking up space. And I know a few people who can wholeheartedly agree with me that there are some around here who are greatly disliked because they suck at what the do. Trolling. | |
Xirre wrote:
I've had a handful of posts deleted myself. Usually for going off topic but in these derail contests who can resist? And you're obviously not reading. My complaint isn't that posts are deleted. It's a lack of clarity between what constitutes a lock instead of a deletion. And it's that users are no longer modified of when their posts are deleted. I really don't care about the deletion right now; I just maintain that any time mod action occurs on your posts that you should be notified of when and why. Imagine walking into class one day and finding out that your thesis got rejected but they wouldn't tell you why and wouldn't give you any remarks. You probably care that your thesis got rejected, but not as much as WHY it got rejected. That's the issue I'm arguing here.
Also, I've yet to see anyone argue against the change I've posted here, or how it would in any way not keep the same system we have in place while still giving users the WHY that I'm bothered about.