World of Warcraft: Private Servers Shut Down

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Dec 16 2008, 5:59 am
In response to CaptFalcon33035
CaptFalcon33035 wrote:
Those license keys are only a measure of security to prevent piracy. They aren't what you purchase--

The CD Key is what you purchased. It's your proof of purchase, as well as your key to the game. If you don't have that, your CD is worthless, and Blizzard won't acknowledge your purchase without it. If you don't have the key, you don't have WoW.


what argument would you make for games that have no license key?

They trust you not to steal from them, or didn't think the investment into a CD Key system was appropriate for their game. Just because there is no CD Key on some games doesn't mean you own the rights to distribute that game.


Are you still only purchasing a license to play?

You got it. You can make one backup copy for your own records, but you can't make copies and give them to your friends. You'll never have that right unless it's explicitly granted to you by the rights holder.

Shouldn't you be informed about the differences between buying a game without a license key and one with a license key before buying?

There is no difference. One is simply an active protection while the other is working on the honor system. You still have no rights to the game data in either case.
Dec 16 2008, 6:06 am
In response to Danial.Beta
Danial.Beta wrote:
Just to note, although a bad FPS might not be a server issue, is is a Blizzard issue, as I have a beast of a machine, and when in cities or crowded areas I drop below 15 FPS. I can run UT3, TF2, and almost any other First Person Shooter on high settings with a framerate of over 30. This is a design issue that seems to stem from the high data rates of the citys(people coming in view, out of view, and lots of things happening). This may not be lag, but it is an issue with the client server relationship, but it is likely poor coding on the client side.

In the city, if you experience people popping up out of nowhere - That is a bandwidth issue. One that no one has managed to solve yet. Its mostly an issue with the fact that cables that run into apartments are often very, very old. I had to tune my 20mbit down yesterday because it would periodically drop the connection, because the cables simply can't take it.

WoW runs fluid to semi-fluid on 4 year old machines with AGP slots at a net cafe I used to work at. I'd say thats pretty good, performance wise. WoW is one of the lowest req modern games out there.

As for Pentium 4 dual-core: I'm pretty sure they exist, I believe we have 4 of them in the office here, and no I don't mean Hyperthreading. Although it is possible they are just the Core-duos, I'm just pretty sure they aren't.

I'm not sure you're correct. The first dual core intel processor was the Pentium D, which isn't a P4 processor at all. Wikipedia seems to support this.
Dec 16 2008, 6:44 am
In response to Alathon
I was incorrect about the machines here, they are Core 2 Duos. He, however, might have a hyperthreading P4, which will appear to have two cores in the task manager.

I have a 6mbit connection that is very solid. WoW rarely even makes a visible dent on my bandwidth. This is likely more of an issue with ping, but even still, my machine shouldn't have any issue processing any of the data. Problems processing the data would be the reason for the low framerate. My PC is beefy enough to handle it, but it seems the client is not designed to.

Outside of towns, I can get up to 80 FPS when I don't have my framerate capped(I cap it to smooth out the game). But even then, if I'm flying and can see really far, it starts to kill my framerate, dropping it under 30. But the poly count shouldn't be so high as to be a problem for my computer. If the poly count is too high, then it isn't designed as it should be.
Dec 16 2008, 7:08 am
In response to Danial.Beta
Danial.Beta wrote:
I have a 6mbit connection that is very solid. WoW rarely even makes a visible dent on my bandwidth. This is likely more of an issue with ping, but even still, my machine shouldn't have any issue processing any of the data. Problems processing the data would be the reason for the low framerate. My PC is beefy enough to handle it, but it seems the client is not designed to.

Thats not quite it. The bandwidth requirements escalate exponentially with the number of players visible to the client. Even if you have a 6mbit connection, that doesn't guarantee you that every single link from the blizzard server farm to your home is capable of handling that amount of data.

As I said before: No game company has solved this yet. The amount of data you need to recieve (not process, but recieve) is simlpy so large. You can offload some things onto client-side guessing, but too much of that and you'll get people with the Diablo TP-effect (Stand in one spot, open a TP in a completely different area).

Outside of towns, I can get up to 80 FPS when I don't have my framerate capped(I cap it to smooth out the game). But even then, if I'm flying and can see really far, it starts to kill my framerate, dropping it under 30. But the poly count shouldn't be so high as to be a problem for my computer. If the poly count is too high, then it isn't designed as it should be.

Once again, consider the people writing the game. Consider the fact that income is highly dependant on how well the game runs. Consider that WoW runs better than pretty much any other MMORPG. What they run into, just like everyone else, is the fact that you can't guarantee the integrity of large amounts of data across Europe in a speedy manner, continually.

ShadowBane, EverQuest, EverQuest 2, Dark Ages of Camelot, Eve et cetera - Every single MMORPG I have ever seen, without exception, has this issue. Until someone thinks up something bright or the general quality of the landlines improves (Fiber net would remove this issue if it were present all the way from france to you, even with a 512kb connection).
Dec 16 2008, 7:27 am
In response to Alathon
Alathon wrote:
As I said before: No game company has solved this yet. The amount of data you need to recieve (not process, but recieve) is simlpy so large. You can offload some things onto client-side guessing, but too much of that and you'll get people with the Diablo TP-effect (Stand in one spot, open a TP in a completely different area).

Simple. Clients tells each other only what they need to see, based on what they can see.
Dec 16 2008, 7:30 am (Edited on Dec 16 2008, 11:41 am)
In response to Xooxer
Xooxer wrote:
Simple. Clients tells each other only what they need to see, based on what they can see.

Thats already how it works, I'm afraid. You recieve data on your immediate environment, a little global data on the zone you're in (Yes, WoW operates in zones, even though they're transparent), and players within much closer proximity reveal more information.

Important distinction: Clients don't ever talk to eachother, they talk to the server which then talks to the clients. The other would be bad.
Dec 16 2008, 7:56 am
In response to Alathon
You forgot your moderator tag, might want to turn that off(and delete this post, probably in the reverse order)
Dec 16 2008, 8:11 am
In response to Alathon
In the case of inside a city, I'm not saying that people should be popping up faster or anything, just that it shouldn't kill my framerate.

As for the long distances thing: Once again, this is a framerate issue, and all the map data is stored locally. The vast majority of network data, such as player locations, is not visible beyond a few hundred feet, so when I see farther, most of that shouldn't apply, and it should just be rendering based on local data. I've seen many games without this problem, including at least one MMO(I don't try many).

Networking problems shouldn't kill framerate(not denying that it is, just saying that it shouldn't). If my computer is waiting for data, don't slow me down(rendering wise), just don't allow me to do what I need to while waiting. Imagine if Firefox stopped responding to load every image on a page.
Dec 16 2008, 12:39 pm
In response to Alathon
My discussion wasn't that off-topic. It picked at the underpinnings of the larger moral discussion. The topic of not owning software is closely tied into the beginning of the entire thread. The problem may be that the debate itself is so large that it requires a discussion of its many facets.

As I understand it, whether or not you own the software and have the rights to connect the client to a server of your choice was the question. So to what extent do you own the client does indeed become the question. And this of course opens the door to the larger question of why digital products are to be treated differently than physical products.


Dec 16 2008, 10:05 pm
In response to Rockinawsome
Rockinawsome wrote:
why digital products are to be treated differently than physical products.

And the answer is rather simple.
Wherever software and hardware are alike, they are treated the same. Whenever they differ, they are treated similar.
Paying for limited use of "content" rather than for the product is not exactly a new idea.
You could see the software issue much like watching a movie in cinema. You don't own the cinema, or even the film and neither do you pay them.
WoW isn't that different, when you consider it an interactive movie, with the company being nice enough and allowing you to watch in their cinema (the software).

Similar aspects apply for cellphones when "sold" in bundle with a contract. You did not purchase the 700$ cellphone for 1$, you "leased" it to use with the specific provider/contract (assuming similar deals exist world wide and are not restricted to Germany).
Dec 17 2008, 3:30 am
In response to Xooxer
Xooxer wrote:
Consumer Law? Do tell. http://www.consumerlaw.org/

Well as I don't doubt you know, the federal government in the United States has very little protections in consumer law. It is a state-protected thing, and does vary from state to state, but most states do have a statute that states that people cannot be held to adhere to a contract dealing with the usage of a product after having purchased the product.

That is, you have to agree to usage restrictions and things of that nature BEFORE you purchase a product; otherwise, there are no protections guaranteed to the manufacturer or store.

Also, you win this one.
Dec 17 2008, 12:02 pm
In response to Trosh Kubyo
Don't even TRY to judge my computer based on today's standards. I know it's crap. My point was that it is more than enough to handle such a low requirement game like World of Warcraft. Even on a higher requirement game like Guild Wars, I can run smoothly in a bunch of areas (granted, some places I can't load in the newest versions of Guild Wars due to graphics card issues).

I have tried playing a game with minimal requirements met. Take Diablo 2, when it first came out, my computer had its minimal requirements, yet I could run it really smooth until I was fighting a boss or an army of mobs (no s***, of course I am going to lag in those situations).

WoW is no acception. Before I upped my RAM from 512MB ro 1.25GB, I had horrible computer lag issues. But after I upgraded it, I was running like a dream. No lag, except the times I ran into latency issues where I would click a skill on my skillbar, and it not activate for 3 seconds.

I've had the same issue on Guild Wars on my brother's computer (I did't want to install a crappy game like WoW on such a marvelous computer; his specs are below).

- Core 2 Duo processor
- 4GB of RAM
- 512MB graphics card
- DirectX 10
- 250GB of HDD (He didn't feel the need to get any more than that)

Now, his machine is uber is my eyes, since mine is of no comparison, yet on MMORPGs such as Guild Wars, I've run into latency issues, again where skills didn't activate for 3 seconds or so. Another latency example would be my character (avatar? toon?) would stop moving, and just be running in place like on a treadmill or something.

To justify my connection integrity, I was home alone, so no one was soaking up any bandwidth. I had the full 1.544MB (1.536?) connection. I'm also sitting ABOVE my router in the house, roughly 6-7ft or so.

EDIT
As for my processor, you can think up any source in the world. My processor is either a dual, or just two different ones running intertwined-like, I'm not totally sure. You're wrong. End of story.
Dec 17 2008, 12:42 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu
Let me be crystal clear here, so you don't misinterpret what I say:

Your computer is below the optimal specs to run World of Warcraft. It doesn't matter what the cardboard box says, because minimum spec just means the lowest possible setting that the game will even *allow* you to start the program with. It is not a benchmark for normal play in any way, shape or form. Therefore, you may experience framerate issues - especially in places with many players or large areas. This isn't a guess or criticism of you by saying your computer is bad. This is just fact.

If the game interface is smoothe but you're running and no new mobs are popping up, or skills give you the activation sound and accompanying ring around the skill icon etc and don't immediately trigger or refuse to trigger then yes - You're experiencing what is called network lag.

This can be due to any number of things that have absolutely nothing to do with Blizzards servers.
Dec 17 2008, 3:10 pm
In response to Alathon
Recommended specs for World of Warcraft:
- Pentium 4 or Athlon XP
- 1.5GHz CPU speed
- 1GB of RAM
- Video Card
~~ 64MB of VRAM
~~ 3D Acceleration
~~ HW Transform & Lighting
~~ VertexShader
~~ Pixel Shader
- DirectX 9.0c
- Sound Card
- 6GB of HDD

That's recommended by http://www.systemrequirementslab.com

I pass every single one EXCEPT the last 3 categories of the video card, which I just run in "-noshader" so the last two, at least, don't count. Everything else either meets or exceeds it's recommendations. I've already accepted the fact that my computer is god-awful by today's standards, but for this game, it's good. Not great, certainly not bad, and more importantly, not borderline (it's above the bar by a few inches in regards to a limbo stick :D Or would being below be better? o.O).
Dec 17 2008, 4:40 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu
You are in denial.
Dec 18 2008, 7:51 am
In response to Trosh Kubyo
Also, I'd assume a corprate like Blizzard would know how to cover their assets (lol pun...). Reading over a user agreement from a recent patch, it mentions several times that all the content of not only the patch version, but the entire software is to be played on the servers as provided by Blizzard. This is clear enough case to take to a court, which would result clearly in Blizzards favour. They could even sue as a company againt the persons responsible for theft (not to sure on this, its happened before in the world of online gaming, and Blizzard does have a good case). In that case it would be brought before a jury, and seeing how the past lawsuits made by companies have went, it wouldn't look so good for the people making these private servers.
Dec 18 2008, 4:37 pm
In response to Trosh Kubyo
Run out of resources have we? Can't explain why there's latency issues sometimes on such properly maintained servers or something for some people and not others? So you just retort "You are in denial". Good response. I'll take a mental note not to take advice from you about other games in the future. ^-^

Can anyone else explain what Trosh Kubyo cannot? :)
Dec 18 2008, 4:42 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu
Well, there are the actual connections to the server by the player. During peak times these can actually bring me down to a crawl (especially during the holidays).

George Gough
Dec 18 2008, 5:20 pm
In response to Mizukouken Ketsu
I think it's time this monster of a thread floated off into the mists.
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