ID:265793
 Nov 21 2007, 3:44 pm
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Hi, my name is Demon_F0rce. You probably don't know me, but I have a question to ask, and a discussion to discuss, about ripping/plagerism. First off, it's against the law, true. However, doesn't BYOND stand for "Build your own Net Dream"? So, in that sense, doesn't that make ripping/plagerism on BYOND okay, since their Net Dream involves the programming and icons and hard work put into the game?
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Nov 21 2007, 4:14 pm
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Kaiochao2536
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Out of the many complaints of ripping and plagiarism, of the ones that included the name "BYOND", it's usually emphasized on the "O", not the "ND". Either way, it's still a complaint about rips, which have been going on for years. <font size=1>(Anime Section isn't helping very much.)</font>
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Yes. However, we are saying that the rips are part of their own net dream, which means they sue them to make their net dream. So, is it a bad thing to other people when put in this prospective?
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Demon_F0rce wrote:
Hi, my name is Demon_F0rce. You probably don't know me, but I have a question to ask, and a discussion to discuss, about ripping/plagerism. Do a forum search before creating posts like this. The topic of rips has been brought up about 1,000 times. There is nothing you can add that hasn't already been said over and over and over again. First off, it's against the law, true. Not only is it illegal to steal someone else's work without their permission, it's immoral and certainly NOT in the spirit of BYOND. However, doesn't BYOND stand for "Build your own Net Dream"? Yes, but an acronym does not suddenly make stealing legal. God, that's almost as ignorant as saying it's ok to kill someone if they make you mad. So, in that sense, doesn't that make ripping/plagerism on BYOND okay, since their Net Dream involves the programming and icons and hard work put into the game? Absolutely not. No. It's never okay to steal someone's work and claim it as your own. You're missing the YO in BYOND, as Kaio pointed out. Build YOUR OWN Net Dream. YOUR OWN. You make it, it belongs to you. You steal it, it doesn't belong to you. Possession may be 9/10ths of the law, but not in the case of property theft. Quit trying to find excuses for breaking the law, and spend your time actually learning how to create games. God! ~X | |
you do realise I made this topic to see other's views on this when I threw them all the facts, right? As soon as I joined BYOND i thought "No way am I going to rip..."
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Like I said, if you want to know what other people think about rips, just do a search on ripping. You'll get all the opinions you want. Just remember that no amount of 'facts', which it seems by your definition is mere speculation at best, and downright deciet at worst, will ever make stealing legal or moral or acceptted on BYOND.
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Demon_F0rce wrote:
doesn't BYOND stand for "Build your own Net Dream"? Yeah, Build Your Own Net Dream. That means create your own freakin' dream, not modify somebody else's. | |
Ripping if you ask me is just an annoyance. The only people who rip and the people who play those rips are in general the sort of people I would want to avoid, and definately not the sort of people I'd want playing a game I've made.
As far as legality and morals go. Morally I guess it is wrong, legality however depends on the game that was ripped. If the game was original then ripping it is illegal and punishable by law. In otherwords, you could be sued for a LOT of money if the original owner pursues legal action... Enough money to possibly ruin the rest of your life just so you know. (And I ask you, is it worth ruining your life just so you can Steal Your Own Net Dream??) As far as anime games go, or games that commit copyright infringment in general, I doubt there is anything that can be done about the ripping of them legally. It is like robbing a bank only to have the money you stole stolen off of you. What can you do about it because you sure as hell can't phone the police ("Hey! I am the guy that robbed the bank the other day, and just now someone stole the money off of me! Come and arrest them!!!"). And while we're on the subject. If you ask me, anime games in general are a much bigger problem on BYOND. They are sure as hell a much bigger threat to BYOND too. If the copyright owners of the anime series found their way to BYOND they could take legal action against the people running those games and possibly BYOND. They could quiet easily force every single anime game being hosted to shut down (or they simply sue) and they could possibly close down the BYOND website, or at the least close down the anime section and force the BYOND staff to remove all anime games and links to anime games. Anyway. Anything related to an anime game is illegal. Nothing you say or do short of getting written permission from the owners of the anime series will ever change that. As far as ripping goes, if the game you've ripped is original (which I don't think I have ever seen happen yet) then you shouldn't be doing it. That was something someone probably put a lot of time and effort into and no matter which way you look at it, it is wrong (and illegal). But if the game you are ripping is an anime game. Who cares? You're only stealing from a thief. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
they could possibly close down the BYOND website, or at the least close down the anime section and force the BYOND staff to remove all anime games and links to anime games. I doubt we'd be so fortunate as to have an excuse to ban anime games on BYOND. | |
Provided the right people find out about BYOND and the website then there is no reason it wouldn't happen. It is a very similar situation to Youtube and all the anime that gets uploaded to it. The anime that is uploaded is constantly being removed due to legal threats from the copyright owners.
But yeah, BYOND is really small compared to a website like Youtube. But I guess if someone pointed those right people to the BYOND website they might come sniffing around and then there might be a good reason to ban anime games on BYOND. But all of that is a hassle. Personally I wouldn't mind if that did happen, but I'm not too bothered because like I said. The people who play those sorts of games aren't the sort of people I'd like to be around. That and I can rest easy tonight (and every night!) knowing that the game I've got maybe 1-2% complete is better than maybe all but 1 anime game on BYOND. (I love it when I am CLEARLY SUPERIOR to people... HAHAHAHAHA!!) | |
Fan games are not illegal anyways. Only if you claim it made by yourself, and profit from it. That's why you can't have donations for fan games, unless you give some of the money to the company or something like that.
Also, BYOND Anime gets the majority of the BYOND population. So it's good for BYOND, just not for the players, until BYOND does something with the goodness. | |
Kaiochao2536 wrote:
Also, BYOND Anime gets the majority of the BYOND population. So it's good for BYOND, just not for the players, until BYOND does something with the goodness. Its only good for BYOND in the short-term sense that it brings in membership money. Its bad in the long-term in that the anime population greatly discourages new users who aren't fans of anime, especially the ones who actually know what they're doing. BYOND is no longer a platform for building online software, its a platform for building anime fan games, because that's what people see when they visit BYOND. (Of course, they're working to change that...) Besides which, the anime crowd seems to have abnormally low moral standards. Ever since they've shown up, there's been a rabid increase in ripping, stealing and scamming. I'm sure we'd all like that to go away. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
As far as legality and morals go. Morally I guess it is wrong, legality however depends on the game that was ripped. Wrong. As far as anime games go, or games that commit copyright infringment in general, I doubt there is anything that can be done about the ripping of them legally. Sure there is. There's more to a game than just it's name and characters. Not everything in them is copyright to an anime studio. Actually, the majority of a game is the source code and graphics. While some of the graphics may infringe upon others copyrights, the majority of them do not. FUNimation does not hold a copyright on grass, trees and water. Nor do they hold any rights to the majority of the images that make up a fan game. If you steal the source code and icons to an anime fan game, you're stealing much more than the anime content. You're stealing the get verb, the attack verb, the login and saving systems. You're stealing thier grass and thier trees and thier hard work. It doesn't matter if they use someone else's work. It doesn't suddenly make it OK to steal thiers. Anyway. Anything related to an anime game is illegal. Not true. Quit making excuses to steal people's stuff. It's a fairly simple concept. ~X | |
True enough that not EVERYTHING in an anime game is illegal if you want to look at thins literally. But they are all commiting copyright infringment, which is illegal regardless of what source code, icons, sounds and whatever you are using.
As for taking legal action against a ripped anime game. I doubt there is actually a lot you could do about it, since the original game is breaking the law anyway. And it could attract attention to the game, the sort of attention that threatens with lawsuits and closes down games. Which is another thing. Haha, I've seen other fangames been closed down before, they were similar to the anime games you see on BYOND more or less, only with a different maker being used (Game Maker and RPG Maker). The people making them/who had made them were forced to cease all development of them and remove and and all links on websites hosting the games. It was either they did that, or they got sued... For $100,000+, and I really don't think some small anime game that was probably shoddily made/stolen and on a very good day might be getting 20 people online is really worth that amount of money. (As I said in a previous post, that amount of money can ruin someones life) Anyway, as I said before. Just ignore the anime crowd. If you ask me they are better left to fester in their own corner of BYOND, at least that way they don't infest the rest of BYOND. (Then again, that happens sometimes, but at least the problem isn't as bad as it could be without the anime section) | |
I thought RPG Maker was under siege mainly for issues of porting it to the U.S. and all the "ZOMGzorz infringementz!!!" drama that goes on with it. When I had it for a while, I remember finding a lot of notices about how it shouldn't be downloaded.
They've got more important things to do than come after Byond. And the anime community isn't festering in its own corner. They've come around these parts more than enough times to spread their toxic love. O_o I'd love to do a case study on the anime fan game motive... It seems to be an instinct. | |
And the anime community isn't festering in its own corner. They've come around these parts more than enough times to spread their toxic love. O_o I'd love to do a case study on the anime fan game motive... It seems to be an instinct.True enough they do come around here fairly often. But there isn't that many. Take the Design Philosophy forums for example, the vast majority of the posts are not related to anime games in any way at all. I'd say Developer How-To, Code Problems, Creations and Classified Ads are the only place those anime people gather in any sort of numbers (other places sometimes have a post by an anime fan, but it isn't too common). The majority of the time it is easy to avoid topics in those forums by anime fans (the typical post in the Developer How-To by an anime fan is titled something along the lines of "How do I make SSJ1000/Kage/Ninjutsu/Bankai system!???"). Either way, I'd suspect there is only a small amount of anime fans that even venture to this part of the BYOND website. Better a small number of them than ALL OF THEM. As for RPG Maker. It is illegal to download and use (but you can legally buy it). But the developers of it cracked down largely on it's distribution rather than people who owned it (it is easier to prove someone is distributing it, and stopping the distributers forces people to buy an original copy of it because they have no other means of getting it). That is why you probably saw a lot of websites that had no downloads for it and notices about not downloading it. And, if anime producers/publishers do know about BYOND then I seriously doubt they would just do nothing about it. All of the cases of copyright infringment I have seen involving amature games have been largely stomped down on and once the game has been found out it is wiped off the face of the Earth, almost literally. Then again, a lot of the cases I've seen have been with actual video game developers/publishers not anime producers/publishers. (Then again, anime on websites like Youtube is usually taken off pretty quickly now) | |
When you talk about RPG Maker, that is a completely different thing you are talking about here. For the longest time, RPG Maker was never even officially available in the states, the only way for Americans to get it was to download the illegal translated version.
The fact is, RPG Maker was originally designed as a game makers suit, and if you ever payed any close attention to any of the lesser RPGS available on like Super Nintendo, or maybe even the Playstation, you would notice that some of them may even have been made with something like RPG Maker. RPG Maker used to be fairly expensive, if I recall 2K3 was like $300.00, part of the cost was software and stuff, the other cost was for the rights to use, republish and charge people for games made in RPG Maker. Right now, for $75.00 you can buy a licesen to use RPG Maker XP's system and system resources, 100% without any worries at all. The biggest difference here being that, BYOND is just having some low quality games ripped off, while ASCII is having people steal graphics, sounds and more that took a lot of time, energy and hard work to make. In all honesty, if I was the company behind RPG Maker and I saw people ripping off my resources without any proof of purchase, I would do everything I could to not only sue the people doing it, but BYOND as well. | |