In response to Hedgemistress
Hedgemistress wrote:
Somebody slap me!

*slaps Hedgemissy* snap out of it! look at the pretty bunny...niiice bunny...
In response to Kagayaku Kami
Kagayaku Kami wrote:
No one can say anything about cutting themselves unless they've actually done it. Seriously.

That argument doesn't hold up for anything; it's just a cheap cop-out to get out of a debate. Having an outside perspective does not preclude understanding of a subjective experience. It only precludes a complete understanding. But then, the person who experiences it themselves also loses out on what the outside perspective sees.

In a case like a psychological study the outside perspective has an advantage: Using interviews and other techniques it's possible to get a very clear picture of what the subjects feel and what common links they share with others like them, whereas that big picture is lost on others.

Not surprisingly this bogus brush-off is used for a lot of other addictions, too. "You can't know unless you've been there, man!" But you don't have to be an alcoholic to understand a lot about them, particularly if you've interacted with thousands. It's quite possible to have a thorough understanding of what motivates a junkie without being one; indeed, more possible.

It's a no-brainer that someone cutting themselves has a serious problem and needs help; the only person who needs to know what they're dealing with is the therapist.

Lummox JR
In response to Covering Fire
Covering Fire wrote:
She cuts herself over people like you. ...But she does because she is mentally ill....

It's the second one; not both. Cutting yourself isn't something someone's attitude drives you to do. It's a symptom of serious mental illness.

She cuts herself because it is her way of expressing anger.

That's anger against herself. It's not anger against "the world" or some random events or general depression that causes this. Clearly depression manifests in different ways for different people, but self-mutilation always comes from some sort of self-disgust. (Depression and other objects of anger are merely part of that package.)

Lummox JR
In response to Lummox JR
Exactly, well put.
In response to Hedgemistress
Hedgemistress wrote:
You don't understand! You don't know what they're going through! Who are you to judge! You're only going to make the problem worse! Somebody slap me!

I'd gladly slap you for treating people like that.
In response to Lummox JR
You seem to be missing a piece of the pie.

I'm basically agreeing with you that it is an illness and they're sick; Sick people need help.

I understand this perfectly, but don't talk about the pain unless you've actually done it to yourself and understood where they were coming from. That's all i'm saying.
In response to Kunark
And see, people with this much hate for other people are also rotten people.

Just because YOU hate someone doesn't mean they're useless to the whole world. You hate them and everyone else that feels the same way, not the Whole world.

That's just a childish remark and act of trying to feel higher then someone, even though you're only degrading yourself. Self development can help, Kunark.
In response to SuperSaiyanGokuX
SuperSaiyanGokuX wrote:
I don't dislike the people, but I dislike their hypocrisy... From my understanding, Goths speak out about being different, and non-conforming, yet they all look and act the same...

they are being different. well, different than you (assuming you aren't a goth yourself). its not that they aren't conforming to anything, its that they are conforming to something different from the majority of society. thats how they can be labelled as "goths", if they were all truly different from one another then they couldn't be given a label. also, time and popularity have probably made the goth idea stray from its roots. if you want to be a goth, you had to get that idea from somewhere, and you probably got it from seeing a goth. so, i'd imagine that lots of times people that are "goth" aren't truly a goth, but they just look like one because they aren't aware that there's more to it than just the fashion.
In response to Kagayaku Kami
Kagayaku Kami wrote:
I understand this perfectly, but don't talk about the pain unless you've actually done it to yourself and understood where they were coming from. That's all i'm saying.

I think his point was that "You don't know what it's like" is just a weak excuse. You really don't need to do it yourself to understand it.
In fact if you've done it yourself then you're probably in a worse position to understand it. It's very hard to face reality when it involves recognising your own flaws. The first instinct is to make up excuses and justify/rationalize your actions.

How many smokers do you know who claim 'I only smoke because I like it'? Even the ones who admit they're addicted usually have an excuse for starting. 'I started because I wanted to, not because everyone else was doing it' even though it was at the exact same time all their friends started smoking, and until then they thought it was stupid.
In response to Kunark
Ok this post is beginning to bug me but ill try to answer everyones questions right now! Anyways I remember reading sumting about how Goths who call themselves Goths aren't Goths my friend doesn't but if you saw her behavior it would be evident that it was. As for Bad Goths( I read about that to!)has anyone really met a Bad Goth? I mean "Bad Goths" are normally people who are just like if you give me dirty looks your going to get them back like my friend Terry. I just learned that this year! Also I really think if you guys think Goths are trying to get attention well not all are my friend doesn't cut herself for attention she hides her wounds. Yes,Some Goths do stuff for attention but they aren't really goths.

~Covering Fire
In response to Kunark
I am tottaly agreeing with you Kunark Conformit = Satan!
In response to Scoobert
They don't pretend to be evil and cut themselves you ignorant fool. First off I have NEVER met an evil Goth, have you even given them a chance? sure as hell doesnt sound like it!
In response to Kagayaku Kami
If that's true, then nobody can understand anybody on anything. Even people who cut, do it for slightly different reasons and different things... and if they don't, how would they know? It's like the old philosophical debate "How do I know that the color I see as red isn't what you see as green?"

Yes, it's true that nobody will ever truly get inside another person's head 100%, and even when somebody else agrees that you understand them, that's still not a sure thing, because of the problem of communicating... you might both be saying the same things, but meaning something else. One of you might think something is implied that the other doesn't.

There is no total understanding.

This is exactly WHY we must never stop trying to understand others without "being there," why we must never stop *gasp* *sputter* JUDGING them... yes, I said the "j word." You don't know me, I don't know you, and we will never know each other, even if we were locked in a room together for 30 years. All we have to go on is our judgements of each other.

If we have to say, "I've never cut myself, so I don't know what it feels like and am not qualified to talk about it," then cutters should disband their little (often wildly unhealthy, in that they support the habit rather than the person) online support groups, 'cause Suzie Darkheart can't understand what XXXDarkPrinceXXX is feeling when he cuts himself 'cause she's never been XXXDarkPrinceXXX.
In response to Kagayaku Kami
Thank you lummox it is amazing how little people know and how they accuse things they don't understand it's good to have people like you on BYOND.
In response to Masterdan
Just so you know ignorance isn't bliss and apparently your extremly ignorant 1st off people don't cut themselves over wealkth or w/e they do it because something is wrong. 2nd people act like goths because they are normally depressed and dress like that to oppose conformity it doesnt matter if your rich or not goths can be anyone just because you like being rich doesnt mean there having a great life too. People can have a different life than you, did you know that?
In response to DarkView
This is a reply to Lesbian too.

Have you ever cut? do you know how it feels? do you know why you would do it?

Well the answer for you is no to all and its not a weak response. I believe it is entirly true because I have never killed some one so i can't go around telling people that i know everything on that subject. I know it may sound weak but in all actuality it is a good response and very true to the subject disagree with me if you like.
In response to Kunark
Ah so many ignorant posts to respond to so little time. Not all people are like your friend some goths "Like the pain, it makes me feel better."(another quothe from my friend) You see society and the retards in it have driven here to this. You should be ashamed to attack someone for their personality whether you agree with it or not. For example you get mad when your friend gets made fun of. Well I get horrendously angry when people are ignorant and attack people too.
In response to Lummox JR
She gets the anger at herself because other people make fun of her so it is indirectly other people and it is directly linked. I think I am gonna tell her today about this and ask her for some quothes. Also ill ask her why she started n stuff.
In response to Covering Fire
Covering Fire wrote:
You see society and the retards in it have driven her to this.

um, no they have not. she has driven herself, and with a big truck.

no one twisted her arm to cut herself, no one forced her to take things so personally that she comes unglued.


You should be ashamed to attack someone for their personality whether you agree with it or not.

I would be ashamed if she was not slapped back from her self-centered view of reality, or at the very least helped by a therapist. I would be ashamed if her mental instability was allowed back into the gene pool unchecked. 'oh sure', you say, 'but what about genetic diversity and free thinking?' she is not free thinking if she allows others to 'drive' her to mutilate herself. she need help, plain and simple, and by people far better qualified than you, me, or anyone in this forum.
In response to Covering Fire
Covering Fire wrote:
Have you ever cut? do you know how it feels? do you know why you would do it?


Actually yes to all three.
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