A while back, Yota suggested that I make Faction Wars into an Open Source Project. Definitely something that I objected to for that game in particular, but the idea is definitely intriguing.
An Open Source game could potentially have so many more people working on it than any development team possible on BYOND.
It could also serve as a learning tool for programmers in general.
What are your thoughts about Open Source BYOND Games?
ID:265787
 Oct 30 2007, 3:51 pm
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Oct 30 2007, 4:00 pm
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Giiji
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Why not, it would save alot of time for developing and it would give you different insights on how people think the game should be.
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I think that it is a good idea in general, but on Byond most will just slightly edit it and claim as their own. Not saying that it wouldn't work, but I think that byond is currently filled with people extremely anxious to get a game(and more than likely fame) although there will be some who genuinely want to make the game better and take it into a new direction.
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Personally I think it's a horrible idea. The people who would benefit from it would be far less in number from the people who wouldn't and would just rip and claim it as their own. Secondly, if it was a decent game, the ammount of rips that would be generated in a possibly non-Anime section might spam RPG into non existence as well. Just a couple of thoughts, I think it's an interesting idea, however I don't think this community would have the maturity to use it properly.
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I'd agree with what everyone else has said, if you did something like that there is a very large chance that people would jump on the code, make a few changes to it (such as removing your name and sticking theirs in it) and then release the game claiming it as their own. And before long you'd probably see about 100 different "versions" of the game being released.
Though, personally, I think doing things like that is a good idea and have considered doing things similar in the past (though I intended on releasing source codes from games I would never complete so other people could look at and learn from it). It is just the community has put me off of doing it. I suppose you could do it, but you would have to take a lot of precaution to make sure people don't and can't just steal your work. Things like using a license agreement that states people can't use the source code for things like that (and if they do you have the legal right to sue them, and they have no one but themselves to blame if things come to that). Alternatively you could use underhand tactics, such as releasing the source code with vital parts of it missing, or systems that are hard for an average person to remove that grant you power over the game without the people who are willing to steal your work knowing about it (for instance, you could make it so if you don't log into the game within an hour after it goes online the world will shut down and things like save files are deleted and so on). But yeah, provided you take the right precautions I think doing things like that is a pretty good idea. | |
I agree with magic... many people will RIP the game but also so many people can benefit from it.. I rather you release it but only to those who ask for it, and that you know won't RIP it...and you make the person sign a contract about not releasing the source.. and if they do release it, you can do something about it...
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obviously faction wars is a completely innovative game, most 'rippers' wouldn't even know were to start. Release the core engine, or dont include the map with the source. We need some decent shooters!
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D4RK3 54B3R wrote:
What are your thoughts about Open Source BYOND Games? for it to really work, the game would have to not just be popular, but be popular among the right crowd. you might find some people who will contribute ideas to a game, but i wouldn't expect a lot of people would be willing to help with the programming end of it. the solution is to code your game in such a way that you can easily implement new features as people think of them. It could also serve as a learning tool for programmers in general. not that you're a bad coder, but the project would get so big and so messy that it would be hard for anyone to learn from it. | |
Original ideas are going to be far more difficult to rip than a fangame. This is especially true if the stuff that is most related to the game is deep in the core, and hard to remove. This is probably rather likely, so it's probably not very likely it'd be ripped.
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I think open sourced is the worst way to go. Not only does all your work basically go to nothing, but little rats will steal your material and fail to give you credit.
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OMG!!!//11111 RIPS~!
Seriously, don't even listen to those people. It is the same people saying the same stuff over and over again. It gets so damn old. Like many other people said, it is much easier to rip a game that was never original to begin with, that many people are familiar with, then to rip a game that was original from the start. Not to mention most games that are ripped have been programmed badly from the start and ripped over and over again. A game that is more complex to work with is going to cause these same rippers to get frustrated when they don't know what the hell is going on. In the end, it is really your choice, but I wouldn't be worried about rippers at all. If it really is a concearn for you, I'd say evaluate a number of people who you think would do a good job and release it only to them under some sort of terms. | |
Hmm... Actually, I've been approached by people from the BYOND community who have approached me with the soul intention of trying to steal my work.
Haha, one time a while ago when rips and rippers use to run rampant and I was more active around BYOND some kid who had gotten my MSN address approached me and basically started making all sorts of silly threats about hacking my computer and doing this and that if I didn't give him what he wanted (which if I'm not mistaken was an icon I'd made). (Hahaha, one time some girl with a frog fetish approached and tried to cyber with me in the middle of a game, and another time some guy tried molesting me over the internet... Oh man! Those were the days, but I'm getting off topic now!) It is probably not as bad now, but there was a part of the BYOND community that was vultures to say the least. They would do whatever it took to earn a bit of fame (or when BYOND Dimes were around money). So it is best to be at least cautious if you are going to release a source code to the public. Also, you have to take into account the popularity of such games. From what I have seen anime games have anywhere between 1 and 120 players online at a time. Averaging out at around 10-20 players (though some have a lot more, and a lot, mainly rips have a lot less). Compared to the average RPG which has... 1-20 players online, averaging out at about 5-10 players. Taking those numbers into account it is only natural that anime games are more likely to be ripped simply because more people (a lot more) play them. Casual, action and stratergy games are hardly even worth mentioning. Though in their defence, casual games are casual, they're not suppose to attract lots of hardcore players, stratergy games are few and far between because they can be damn hard to make, and action games simply don't work all that well on BYOND (and the action games that exist though few in number actually have a decent amount of players on). But the fact that there is so many anime games with so many players definately would effect how many people would make rips of them where possible. How good or badly made a game is and how complex it's coding is probably would have some effect on how much it is ripped, but I bet you $100 that if the source code for Naruto GOA (which seems like a decently made game which probably has some fairly complex coding involved) was ever released there would be hundreds of rips for it released before long. Simply because it is probably the best anime games on BYOND, and definately one of the most if not the most popular game on BYOND. | |
Please don't do it. If you want people to learn from your source, just give bits of code away like shooting system or log-in system or saving/loading. This way, people won't get an all-in-one-ready-to-rip package.
-Poal | |
Knifo wrote:
I think open sourced is the worst way to go. Not only does all your work basically go to nothing, Yea, no one's ever heard of any open source projects. No one's ever heard of any of those projects like WikiMedia, Linux, Firefox, or Pidgin. They probably could've been good, too, had they only been closed source. | |
I've considered it a couple of times with something that wouldn't be something a user could claim as his own. It wouldn't really be a game. For example, perhaps a virtual operating system where people can contribute to it's operation and add programs to it. People can review others' coding and discuss design philosophy and make improvements to the previously existing code.
But that seems like a boring project. Whatever you decide to do is cool, though, as long as you don't release that Conquest game I like so much. [Edit] And wow, many people have a bad opinion about the BYOND community. | |
I would love a open source project, i would be able to learn way faster how to program, ya you have small programs out there that do some stuff but i have no idea how to put them together, but a full blank game i think would really help some of us get to the level we need to be to make kick butt games, anyways anyone want to give me some lessons let me know!
[email protected] | |
As I said before, open sources will always have "n00bs" and "newbs" copying and flooding BYOND with rips.
Now here's a basic theory on coding - We all code different. That's why people say "Naruto code is messy and buggy", because we all have a different 'style' of coding and they call code "messy" because they are used to different ways of coding. Their ae about 10 ways to make anything in a game, we all have our own way and we almost never have the same code. Learning to code from someone is not the best of ideas, if we all coded the same their would be no fun and it would be so easy to code, everyone would have all the answers. We all code differently that's why it is sometime hard for us to understand how others' code(s) work and that's why demos amd libraries frustrate coders. I figured out that coding is similar to writing, we all have different pen-man-ship that's why the police use it to find suspects, simmilar to how we code. But this is just my opinion. -Poal | |
Anyone besides me hear "Rip" <_<...
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Being a FSF member, I like the notion.
Every situation is of course different, however idealistically all Software projects could be Open Source. BYOND does have a history of ripping, as plenty here have noted. However, I feel this issue could be suitably managed, provided BYOND themselves are willing to support Developers in enforcing Open Source licencing. BYOND, as a principle resource for the distribution and discovery of BYOND games, has a certain amount of responsibility in ensuring content does not break laws, copyright, licencing etc. Perfect moderation of BYOND's hub is a difficult task, however they have shown signs of attempting to reach such a state. Their stance regarding making money from fan-games is one such action that springs to mind. If they are willing to take the breach of legally ratified licences seriously, then this could form a basis for protecting against 'ripping'. Using a suitably restrictive licence regarding the rights of people hoping to use elements of the project, you can make ripping undesirable. Take the GPL 2.0 for instance, it's sections regarding accreditation and licence extension remove a good portion of the benefit from ripping. Failure to comply; presumably as ultimately decided by BYOND themselves, should result in action from BYOND, thus also making ripping unviable from that respect. I would advise making use to someone who knows; in detail, the licence you intend to employ. Otherwise, you may risk invalidating the licence yourselves, thus removing any legal ground you possibly had. The way licences like GPL 2.0 work, means that new programmers can benefit from the examples your project may provide, and if they so wish, still make use of the very elements your project produced. Excepting the question of BYOND's stance on helping enforce legally ratified licences, I only see one other licence problem; education. In short, people may honestly attempt to comply with your chosen licence, but just can't understand it well enough. You don't want the licence to be a barrier to use, just a barrier to misuse. As such, it would appear that the need for someone with an understanding of your licence is required again, to provide a service to whose who wish to honestly comply with the licence. How aggressively you enforce the licence is up to you, really. I'd go for allowing people to correct their mistake, attempt to educate, then if all else fails, take aggressive action. All the rest of your problems are just Project Management. =P | |
