What do you think are good qualities in an rpg?
For me i'd say having alot of a roleplay element,big towns,lots of monsters and a good storyline.
ID:265254
 Jan 21 2004, 5:58 am
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Reason most games have the forests have slimes and caves have zombies,and the monsters arnt a threat is because they seem to be using pre-made or as you'd say ripped sources :) so the most the creator can do is slap monsters on the map,only exception to that is probally seika but games like MJ and Daikanu Online just slap monsters all over the place. :) (No offense to The Mj and DO Users) - Xz | |
Foomer wrote:
Well, this was about what makes a good RPG, not which RPGs are good. :P I know that,i was simply pointing things out >.> | |
XzDoG wrote:
Foomer wrote: So was I. | |
I disagree, but only partially -- I think it's very possible to have a storyline in an MORPG, provided one important factor: that it happens before the launch of the game. That is, a full and complete background story to the game, which produces a justification and explanation for every single location, area, and species in the game.
Even though "MUD" is a very limited term used to refer to a text-based game themed around Dungeon, I use it to refer to games which do not have real plotlines and where the real goal is to whack on monsters, and chat with friends when you're not. I use the term "RPG" to refer to games where the real goal is to follow or invent a story, and where your character creates a part in that story, however small. "MMORPG" or "MORPG" refers more to my definition of a MUD type of game. Whacking on monsters and chatting. So to summarise my view on the subject... the way to make a good RPG is to make something that's not a MUD. ;-) | |
Spuzzum wrote:
Even though "MUD" is a very limited term used to refer to a text-based game themed around Dungeon, I use it to refer to games which do not have real plotlines and where the real goal is to whack on monsters, and chat with friends when you're not. I'd call them Roguelikes :P With or without the chatting. | |
What do you think are good qualities in an rpg? Let me break this down by type since RPG means a lot of things to a lot of people. [Console RPG - (ie Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior] Generally I can't stand these because most of the time is not spent playing the game. There is a lot that could be done to improve this group but generally that would put the game in a different RPG category. [Adventure RPG - (ie The Zelda games)] Here despite the name it's all about the puzzles. They should be challanging but should be able to be figured out through trial and error, but if you can only win through trial and error your puzzle is broken. There should always be more than one thing the player can be doing up until the end that way if the player gets stuck on a puzzle they could be off doing something else. Exlporation is also a big thing but whatever you do DON'T put a big empty area(like in Zelda 64) because that's just boring. Unless you have interesting stuff to fill each area don't bother making the game big. [Computer RPG - (ie Fallout, Balder's Gate)] The big emphises in this catagory is tactical combat. This is two parts actually character development and the combat itself both of which should be interesting if you want a good game. For character development there should be many options but make sure that the options actually generate unique play experiances or else it just becomes different names for damage. Unless you're making the game multiplayer you should have combat turn based. The best real time combat model isn't even close to being as good as some decent turn based one. A side from that I generally enjoy listening to comical characters(Minsc and Deekin were crappy characters but I ended up taking them a long just to here their speeches/comments). [MMORPG] As far as I'm concerned this catagory is inherently broken as in general they're just substituting the fact that their game is largely boring for the fact that you can play with a bunch of other people. The best way to even attempt to make a decent RPG would be to have a decent combat model that's actually fun so the game is about playing it not watching numbers grow. [PnP RPG] The whole enjoyable thing behind PnP RPGs is the social experiance. By this I mean getting together with people *in person* and acting like complete wierdos. In a PnP RPG there is no story line since that implies linearity whereas in a PnP RPG players are free to attempt any action even if the DM hadn't planned it. Okay now for the storyline rant. Except in the case of a strict stage/level based game(ie You finish level 1 then proced to level 2 and so on) having a story line cripples the gameplay since you're binding the player to set a predefined actions so the stroyline will precede as planned. In many cases even if a game is linear you should atleast try and make the player think otherwise the first time through by providing various ways to handle a few problems, but with a story line you're dictating what happens based on the storyline. Not only that but if you have a lot of dialog you're impeding the player from playing the game which is a bad thing especially if you do it to me since I play a game to play a game. If the storyline is bad and impeding then it's even worse and chances are I'll quit the game quite quickly which is generally the case because I've seen very few well done stroylines. A non-exsistant storyline or a simple one is much better because it's not preventing me from playing the game and it's hard to be bad if there isn't much there to be bad. As far as RPG elements goes that has become a buzz word to describe anything. Some space shooter claimed to have RPG elements because you had to worry about repairing your engines. Warcraft 3 claims to have RPG elements because you have hero units that level up. Other games claim to have RPG elements because the interupt the player with a lot of storyline. None of this has anything to do with roleplaying. Using the term RPG elements is just as descriptive as saying your game has good stuff. | |
I disagree, but only partially -- I think it's very possible to have a storyline in an MORPG, provided one important factor: that it happens before the launch of the game. That is, a full and complete background story to the game, which produces a justification and explanation for every single location, area, and species in the game. That's background history which is always cool to have in a game since it doesn't interupt gameplay. Storyline I generally think of as a sequences of required actions that take place throughout a game to get to a set ending. So to summarise my view on the subject... the way to make a good RPG is to make something that's not a MUD. ;-) Whacking on monsters is very fun if the combat model is done right which is somthing I haven't seen done well in any MMORPG. For some reason when anything becomes massivly multiplayer it just becomes some watered down version of a game with chatting. A good example is the Sims Online. They took out every decent piece of gameplay they had and pretty much made it a chat room where you watch stats rise :P. | |
I don't think there will ever be such a thing as an MMORPG with a decent combat system until they invent ways to warp time, then they can have online turn-based combat in realtime!
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At first glance, Ultima X: Odyssey's combat system looks pretty good for a MMORPG. I quote:
"The combat of UXO wields the sword of real-time action while carrying the banner of its RPG roots. Every time you click the mouse in combat your character takes a swing. The longer you wait the more time you take aiming and your chance to hit goes up. This is made more interesting by the fact that each time you hit your character gains "momentum" and if you string enough bits together you can unleash a "combo" as your opponent reels under your attacks. Likewise, every time you are hit your Defence score drops, but this doesn't have to be one-way traffic; by spending the same points that power your spells and special moves you can bump your defence back up and hopefully foil his attack routine... in this system style counts and players who manage their combat well can play bigger than they are." Of course, this system may turn out to be crap, and it's quite possible that UXO will likewise be crap, but we can only hope right? | |
If I had to be stuck with realtime combat, I'd be inclined to favor something like the system in Zelda64. It was simple, easy to get the hang of, and fun.
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Well, realtime combat is the only realistic option in an MMORPG; you could try turn-based, but it would be more difficult to do, especially if you started getting battles of >100 people at a time. Turn-based games are like democracies; the smaller they are, the better they work. =)
(Note: I am not saying anything bad about democracies. Please do not flame me for that comment. Please refrain from saying anything further about systems of government in this thread. Thanks. =) ) I'm not familiar with Zelda64's combat system. Could you elaborate? | |
Crispy wrote:
I'm not familiar with Zelda64's combat system. Could you elaborate? No. You'd have to play it. | |
Games using the same general engine: Starfox Adventures, Legend of Zelda: WindWaker, Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Metroid Prime (although with a first person perspective and a projectile attack as your main). Probably more that I'm forgetting. I like the style and it fits well, makes 3D third person combat easier without the tricky camera angle problems.
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I think that up-and-coming matrix game (the matrix online)
will have a good, different battle system, well different from an average mmorpg. | |
For most games I play I look for good character development and some sort of love story. Without the love story it ain't a good RPG. Plot is always a really good thing and I like twsits and turns and a lot of mystery. Graphics are a plus to me. Video sequences are good and I'm like voices in my RPG's and good cutscenes(example:Xenosaga<---Great Game). Though my fav game doesn't really have all of these which is FFVIII. I like this game cause of the man character Squall. He isn't like the normal Cliche' main character. THough he not very good when it comes to the matter of heart. Music is a huge plus for me. I don't have a to strong of a care for MMORPG I do like to RP though. Well there is my 2 cents.
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For most games I play I look for good character development and some sort of love story. Without the love story it ain't a good RPG. Plot is always a really good thing and I like twsits and turns and a lot of mystery. Graphics are a plus to me. Why not read a book or watch a movie? Video sequences are good and I'm like voices in my RPG's and good cutscenes(example:Xenosaga<---Great Game). You know if you're going to say you like voices and good cutscenes why would you name Xenosaga as a good example. The dialog for all the characters was devoid of emotion and it seemed like everyone including the android thing was stoned out of their mind. I don't think I've seen that bad of acting except maybe in the Dune mini series but even there it's a strech of the imagination and only becuase of one characters exceptionally poor acting talent. Though my fav game doesn't really have all of these which is FFVIII. I like this game cause of the man character Squall. He isn't like the normal Cliche' main character. THough he not very good when it comes to the matter of heart. I've never actually bothered to play the game but from friends who like the genre FFVIII is notoriously the worst game in the series. And if you like the game because of a main character instead of gameplay why not spend your time reading books or watching movies? I do like to RP though. I'm hoping when you say this it's unrelated to the FF games. | |
In a normal RPG or an online RPG?
Its pretty hard to have a storyline in an online RPG. About the best you can hope for is to have a staff that's willing to weave plots as they go, and players that are willing to go along with them (rather than just wandering around killing things). If your RPG is singleplayer, or perhaps designed to be played like a normal, singleplayer RPG, only with a group of players instead, then a good storyline is a must.
Monsters are something that usually tick me off more often than anything else in RPGs, especially the ones on BYOND. I absolutely can not stand monsters that just sit around waiting to be attacked. Whats worse are monsters that are just randomly scattered throughout the world waiting to be attacked. If you're going to have monsters, they must be a threat. Any monster that just sits around idly while you wander around its house (unless you attack it) is not a threat. Monsters must also have a purpose and place, not just be scattered randomly as something for the player to fight. Why are forests always full of killer slimes? Why are they filled with swarms of undead? Caves loaded with zombies? It makes no sense, it has no reason, and the monsters are only there to give the player something to fight. Bad bad bad. Not every area of the game has to be jampacked with monsters. If you're going to have monsters, make it logical! Put goblins in a cave where goblins live! Put evil warriors in an evil castle or fortress. If you've got a cave full of zombies, have the locals in the nearby village explain to you WHY the cave is full of zombies. Stupid monster placements are just about the most obnoxious thing any RPG can have.
Big towns? I'm not concerned about how large the towns are, but any good RPG should have plenty to explore. Whats more important than having a lot to explore, though, is having something to make the exploration worthwhile. For example, in an RPG I was tampering with a while back and have since given up on, skills could only be increased by searching the world over to find new teachers who will improve that skill. Once a teacher has tought you something, it can't be learned from them again. Searching the world for ancient artifacts is always fun. Or maybe just searching for hidden passages that lead to new places. But if there is nothing worth finding out there, exploration becomes pointless and repetative.
Roleplay elements, unless you've got a dedicated roleplaying staff and playerbase, don't tend to work out well since most players aren't really interested in roleplaying. Singleplayer RPGs are much better for roleplaying, because the only person you have to ruin the game for by not roleplaying is yourself! And in a singleplayer RPG, all the characters will roleplay with you, which makes things much easier. :P
So for me what makes a good RPG is mostly having logical monsters along with plenty of exploration and things to find. Online or not, it really doesn't matter.