Tutorial on Mapping

ID:267601
 
Jul 25 2003, 7:56 pm
Does anyone know of a good tutorial on layering, or at least one on mapping? I'm really running into some problems here, and I have a feeling I'm either going about things the wrong way or getting over my head. The tutorials I've looked at maybe touched on it, but for the most part focused on the basics, like making grass as an icon and filling it up. I'm kinda thinking of something.. Like, better than that. So, anyone have a link to a tutorial that gets pretty deep into mapping? Thanks..
Jul 25 2003, 8:56 pm
well... mapping is sort of point and click. If you've got your turfs all made up, no one can help you Beyond that. Mapping is more of an art style, it is something you don't get better at, you just... do it.

My only advice is: DO NOT leave empty space, wide open spaces are not only boring, but they are ugly, id you are making a field in a game, add patches of dirt, and pebbles, and flowers, and rocks, and scrubby bushes, don't just make it a field of grass. BUT do not make it too crowded, ther is this sort of balance, some people can tell, others can't.
Jul 25 2003, 9:04 pm
In response to Ter13
Well, you see, my problem with mapping is the fact that, for me to replicate Narshe, a town from Final Fantasy 6, the only way I would know to do it would be to take screenshots from the game, convert them to .png files, put those .png files into the enviroment folder, and then piece these screenshots together like a jig-saw puzzle to complete the town. The problem is, how can I make the houses and stuff dense without making the whole pictures dense? I imagine it would have something to do with layering, so I suppose I'll play around with the layering with the screenshots and the Dream Maker layering. Thanks for responding, though.
Jul 25 2003, 9:34 pm
In response to Rockin' Eli
simple, by making turfs out of the screen shots, and making certain turfs dense. These screen shots will have to be broken up. Narshe, my friend is complicated, many layers go into this town, and there are many little sprites for aesthetic purposes. you will have to take the map layer by layer, and get every single 16 x 16 tile out of the game, and then double their size, and ONLY THEN layer them all correctly, and then place them all correctly, and then add all the special effects, no PNG's required!

Anyway, you are in for a month's work minimum. Good luck.
Jul 25 2003, 10:03 pm
In response to Ter13
Huh... I bet that's why the DW games are more popular.. Less.. I dunno, advanced. Thanks a lot.
Jul 26 2003, 4:59 am
In response to Rockin' Eli
You can make a clear turf that's dense. Then layer the turf on whatever you want to be dense.
Jul 26 2003, 5:47 am
In response to SSChicken
That is not effective.

Only one turf per location is allowed. Do not listen to chicken. The turf will become an overlay of that turf, the best way to do this is to rip the tiles, and rebuild the city tile-by-tile.
Jul 26 2003, 5:52 am
In response to Ter13
The old turfs become an underlay of the new one :). But you could also use areas instead of turfs. just do:

area
dense_spot
density=1

then you can just put that right over the tiles that need to be dense.
Jul 26 2003, 5:59 am
In response to Nick231
Please tell me, why is it so hard to right click on the tiles and make them dense with the editor? If he only wants some of the tiles to be dense in the PNG, he can use the editor. He just right clicks. YOu guys's methods are stupid! I don't mean to insult, but you guys are less than a year on BYOND! Listen to me, it is best to rip individual tiles out of the rom, and then make those that need to be dense, and those that don't not dense!

THIS is the easiest way to do it! It is dumb to use big PNG's and layer them around! I see no point to it, and I see no point to you guys suggesting that he make areas dense! THAT IS NOT USEFUL AT ALL! I am trying to help this guy, you guys are setting him back.
Jul 26 2003, 6:06 am
In response to Ter13
I would suggest that he use areas to make the houses and cliffs dense. Right-clicking on each tile and setting its density to 1 manually would take forever to do, as would ripping each individual tile from Narshe (Have you ever tried to rip every tile from Narshe? There's an awful lot of them).

but you guys are less than a year on BYOND!

Not that I am, but that makes absolutely no difference. I'd refuse anyone's advice if their seelling point was "listen to me, I've been here longer".
Jul 26 2003, 6:07 am
In response to Ter13
In all honesty, using dense areas over a .png bacground is much faster than breaking it up, and making each tile dense(or not dense). Granted depending on what he plans to do it may be easier, but chances are for a FF game, there isnt going to be all to much going on on the side of a building!

Depending on how its done he will probably end up with 1-3 areas. Random battle areas, Doors (which could be done with turfs) and dense spots.

In all honesty its easier to use the .pngs and then add the area then even using the .png and editing the tiles that need to be dense. So unless there is some major huge reason why its bad other then "Theres another more time consuming method of doing it" please let me know so I can correct my faulty methods.
Jul 26 2003, 6:15 am
In response to Nick231
sure, he'll get the first town done quick, but what if he wants to preconstruct a town of his own, and what about the overlays, how do you do those with a PNG? If you have ever played FF6/FF3, you will know there is no way to complete this task with .PNGs, because you can go behind houses, and they will overlay you! Your way will not work, not without major, time consuming work! In the end, your way is faster, my way is more thorough. How do you do a bridge with .PNGs? WHen a character can walk around on it, while other characters walk around below it! IT IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT CODING THE TURF FIRST! It is best to rip the turfs up.

I will state this for the last time, my way may be longer, but it is more effective.
Jul 26 2003, 6:22 am
In response to Ter13
In that case you could also use areas. when the area is created he could loop through the turfs in that area granted the edges of say the bridges where you can see part of the ground below it would have to be redone, but that is still much easier than coding each individually:
area
    above_mob_turfs
         New()
              ..()
              for(var/turf/A in src.loc)
                   A.layer=MOB_LAYER+1//or as many as needed so its over all mob related things

This way would still be faster in that your using the much faster pngs for majority of the work, and doing the little needed details in the code.
Jul 26 2003, 6:42 am
In response to Nick231
nope, not even close. WHat if someone wants to walk ON THE BRIDGE? YOu need a few more ops. and they aren't area involved, they are TURF INVOLVED. Trust me, I know what I am talking about! YOu see, one person could be on top of the bridge while another is below it! It's fairly simple stuff.
Jul 26 2003, 6:43 am
In response to Ter13
Oh, well I'm sorry. Didn't know that would happen :/
Jul 26 2003, 6:46 am
In response to SSChicken
I don't mean to insult, but I would think ppl knew that. it came about in BYOND version.... 3 something.. can't remember...
Jul 26 2003, 6:48 am
In response to Ter13
But could you do it with areas? I noticed somebody mentioned that in the thread.
Jul 26 2003, 6:52 am
In response to SSChicken
yes, you could, but I do not reccommend it, it is ineffective, and using .PNGs in the first place is not only stupid, it's... stupid! All I'm saying is, that simple tiling is the best way about mapping, because it is easy to customize things, and you can make new maps without having to put together a PNG file. and ANOTHER THING! With a PNG, you only get ONE palette of 256 colors, while different tiles with multiple icon files can have a palette each!
Jul 26 2003, 7:02 am
In response to Ter13
in the case of a bridge, yes, it is more of a "is it on or under the bridge" in which case you could STILL use areas. A combination of client images, areas, and a mob variable would probably be the easiest way, and it would not have to be coded for the individual turf. If they are going under the bridge simply make the client images above the player, for over the bridge make it under. With just a bridge, bridge enter over, and bridge enter under you could have an entire bride system (which I may turn into a demo as a lot of people would probably find useful).

Either way, what it comes down to is "Do you want to use pngs doing actual hard-coding for what needs to have it." or "Hard code everything taking more time where I could have used the previous method, but allowing me to do the customizations on the individual atom level rather than a broader level as in the previous method".