Just wondering if anyone has seen this movie? It's pretty good. I was really surprized too see just how differnt America is too Australia when it comes to gun control.
It's rather funny, although there are some scenes in it that are rather disturbing.
Anyway, I recommend you see it if you get the chance. It brings up some really good points.
-DogMan
PS: It's a documentry by Michael Moore about America and guns.
ID:274989
 Dec 13 2002, 10:15 pm
|
|
I haven't seen it yet, though I've read quite a bit about it.
Most of the reviews I've read agree that it's got a lot of funny stuff in it. I've also read some plausible arguments that Moore left out some relevant pieces of information, and staged some events that are implied to be unscripted. Anyway, I'll probably see it when it comes out on video. | |
I still find the Canadian system for firearms control far more effective: any weapons that are not intended exclusively for hunting purposes are illegal to own for any purpose other than law enforcement or the military. Assault rifles were developed for the military; they're illegal for civilians. Pistols were developed for the military; they're illegal for civilians. All manner of explosives require special permits, and can only be used for licensed demolition purposes (which renders all grenades illegal).
The actual purchase of a rifle is, however, a fair bit less controlled -- you can purchase a rifle without any restrictions other than possessing a valid license (as far as I'm aware -- it could have become stricter recently). A valid license is required to purchase ammunition, of course, and police officers have power to seize any firearm, at any time, for any reason. Bearing arms in this country is a privilege, not a right. The RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police, for those who aren't aware) also perform occasional roadblocks, inspecting passersby. Usually this is done for the intent of arresting drunk drivers (they step up their roadblocks on occasions where drinking is commonplace), but they also perform random miscellaneous inspections of vehicles that seem suspicious. However, there is too much land and too little population -- the RCMP has an extremely difficult time keeping up to the illegal activities that cross the American border (both to and from Canada). | |
I assume when you say pistol you mean a semi-automatic handgun and not a revolver? There are plenty of revolvers you can use for hunting purposes.
| |
Ah, but what will you Canadians do when hordes of zombies infest the land! I seriously hope you all don't think the Mounties will be able to save the entire country! *DunDunDunnnn!!!*
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
I have to... If anything goes wrong in the process, the person who sold the gun is often legally responsible...
And I'm not going to mess with the ATF or the FBI...lol So, I've got to know the rules... | |
Spuzzum wrote:
I still find the Canadian system for firearms control far more effective: any weapons that are not intended exclusively for hunting purposes are illegal to own for any purpose other than law enforcement or the military. "Effective" depends on the effect you want to achieve. Certainly the Canadian system is more effective at keeping firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens, just as the American system is more effective at allowing law-abiding citizens access to a variety of firearms. In other words, "effective" in this context is kind of tautological unless you specify the desired effect. Bearing arms in this country is a privilege, not a right. That's swell as long as there are wise, benevolent politicians doling out the privileges. In America we pretty much assume that politicians are incapable of being wise or benevolent, so we generally prefer a rights-based model. But to each his own. I bet that Stockwell Day guy would love to hand out privileges all over the place! However, there is too much land and too little population -- the RCMP has an extremely difficult time keeping up to the illegal activities that cross the American border (both to and from Canada). They may have a difficult time, but they always get their man! ...Or so I've heard. :) | |
due to the fact that guns cannot be attained by law abiding citizens for personal defense there are also less deaths but still the equal amount of muggings for most other countries.
Muggers and thieves in canada do have to worry about their victims pulling out a gun and shooting them so its a bit more casual when it comes to crime. "casual when it comes to crime" that doesnt sound right. Either way less danger, less death.. its really that simple. | |
Really, American gun control laws aren't strict, it's just the purchasing of the gun that is real anal. You can get just about any gun as long as you have a good enough liscense(I think with a certain liscense, and by living in Kansas, you can buy an Uzi....). So there is probably a large difference between Australia in the U.S. based on gun control.
| |
To be fair, shootings with rifles occur far too often nonetheless -- one of my uncles was shot and killed (before I was born) not even a block away from my house. =P
| |
Granted, it's only a limited amount of knowledge that I've learned in my time working in the Sporting Goods department of my Wal*Mart...but I know a good portion of the laws and processes involved in selling firearms here in the United States of America...
We only sell what are classified as "long guns" (rifles, shotguns, and muzzleloaders)...and the controls over these are less strict than the sale of handguns (which are more dangerous, since they're more easily concealed, etc) but there's still a good deal of control over their sale...
First off, all sellers (including manufacturers and dealers) of firearms are required to have a Federal Firearms License... This is renewed every three years, and the certificate must be displayed in the area that the firearms are sold...
Included in this license, the licensee must submit a list of "responsible persons" (in the case of our store, this includes the Sporting Goods department manager, and our store manager) that are in charge of keeping all of the records in order... These designated people must have their fingerprints on file with the ATF ("Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms" for those that don't know)... These people are the only ones that can check in all received firearms and log them into the gun logbook that must be kept by all firearms sellers...
The logbook is where all gun transfers into and out of the store are written... When a gun comes in, it is logged into the next available line in the book, along with its serial number, manufacturer, model, type, guage or caliber, date received, location received from, etc...
When a gun is sold, the entry in the gun logbook for that particular gun is then completed by filling in the purchaser's name, date of transaction, purchaser's identification, date of birth, and address...
These books are kept forever in the store's location... And they move if the store moves (if the store closes, I assume they'd be moved to the Home Office)...
Before selling a firearm, there is a large chunk of paperwork to go through... The ATF form 4473...
On the front, the purchaser must fill in the usual name, address, birthdate, height, weight, etc... Along with their place of birth, country of citizenship, optional Social Security Number, and any other secondary identification numbers if applicable (military ID, alien registration, etc)
They then must answer a series of yes or no questions, ranging from "Are you the actual purchaser of the firearm listed on this form?" (which must be a "yes" to proceed... you can't buy a gun for someone else, except when it is a gift... go figure...lol) to "Have you ever been convicted of a felony for which you could have spent over a year in jail?" (which obviously must be a "no") Other questions include asking if there are any restraining orders out against them, or if they've ever been dishonorably discharged from the military, or if they are currently using any illegal drugs...
They then must sign and date the form... And it's my turn...
On the back side, there's a place to list the type and number of identification they have shown me (must be a government issued, photo ID... and they must have proof of current address...which is usually shown on the ID, but if they've moved and haven't gotten a new ID, they have to show me some other government legal document that shows their current address)
I then have to call in a background check... We contact this place known as NICS ("National Instant background Check System", I believe)... We must give them our Firearms License number, and a password... They then ask us to read off the information filled out on the front of the form... Name, birthdate, height, weight, country of citizenship, type of firearm, SSN, etc...
They enter the info into their computer, and it checks for red flags on their record that should keep them from getting a gun... If all goes well and they're clean, they tell us to proceed, and we fill in a number that they give us for that transaction...
We can also either get a Delayed, or Denied response... A Denied is exactly what it sounds like... We flat out can't sell them the gun... Something came up that bars them from owning a firearm... If they feel that it is a wrongful denial, they must write to NICS requesting an appeal... If we receive a Delayed response, we cannot sell the gun until either NICS gets back to us with a Proceed, or three business days pass with no answer (legally, anyway... Wal*Mart enacted their own regulation on this that says we can't sell the gun until we get a Proceed, even if the three days have passed, because statistics show that Delayed checks that go beyond the three days often end up being cases where the purchaser would have been denied, anyways)
If the check comes back OK, we then fill in all info about the gun on the form (serial number, manufacturer, type, caliber or guage, etc)... And we sign and date it...
After all of this, the customer can purchase the firearm...
All paperwork must also be filed in the store forever... A copy of the form must be made, and stored separately from the original (as a backup in case of fire or some such disaster)
Wal*Mart also has a policy that requires us to have a manager check over all of the paperwork to make sure it's all correct and complete, and carry the firearm to the door of the store...
So, as you can see, selling a gun is a time consuming process... But ultimately, it's a necessary measure...
However, if you really look at it, chances are that only the law abiding gun purchasers buy them at a store... Anyone who wants to commit a crime with a gun will get one off the street...lol But every bit helps, I guess... And we have had some Denied gun sales...so it does stop a few people... And it provides a way for all lawfully sold guns to be "registered"...as we keep the records forever... If anything were to happen to or with the gun, the authorities can check the forms to track the owner down...
For the sale of a handgun, the process is a bit tighter... The form is universal (it can be used for both long guns and handguns) but there is also a mandatory 5 day waiting period on the sale of handguns (due to the Brady Bill)...
I think it's this hassle that keeps Wal*Mart from selling them... Aside from the bad image handguns give... At least rifles and shotguns are generally seen as hunting weapons... Handguns are seen as criminal weapons...lol
With muzzleloaders (AKA black powder guns... the ones that you load yourself with gun powder and a lead ball or bullet) there are no laws governing their sale... So they can be sold like any other item in the store... This is because muzzleloaders aren't generally the weapon of choice to be used in crimes... Thus, no laws have been passed to govern them... Gun control laws are usually after-the-fact things... Someone gets killed, a law is passed...
So yes, there is a certain degree of gun control in the US... However, the system is definitely not perfect...lol