Devil Man wrote:

Didn't you?

Wrong again, that post was intended after Nadrews responses to yours.

I was just backing up your statements.

Lee

Lesbian Assassin wrote:

it knows that a million morons will laugh at a robot saying "Bite my shiny metal ass."

Ouch....

It still seems to be nothing but emphatic grunting and loud flashing colors every time I flip past it on Cartoon Network, but I'll take your word for it.

Foomer wrote:

Random recommended reading: http://www.hanabatake.com/research/monkey.htm

Aww, I thought that was something about monkeys, but it's just some anime site! Bah!

Actually, I was hoping somone would take notice of Hsi-yu chi, The Journey to the West (title varies) for one of the greatest stories in the history of Earth. For influence, it ranks up there with The Illiad and The Odessey.

To tell the truth, I didn't even notice it was an anime site. :) I was searching for a reference about the original work.

Devil Man wrote:

In that case i apologise for my remarks. No hard feelings?

Its ok. I should have made it more clearly to understand mate ^_^

So yea, no hard feelings ^_^

Lee

Devil Man wrote:

Nevar!

Hee, that probably would have been more dramatic if you had spelled it right. ;)

Lesbian Assassin wrote:

Dragon Ball:

This Japanese import has been dumbed down so far in translation that the American television viewing population would no doubt be insulted if they were not, in fact, American television viewers. I gather it has something to do with "ki force," which in this context at least is apparently a Japanese word for testosterone, and has actually managed to convert a disturbing number of pre-and-barely teens to an unrecognizable hybrid form of eastern mysticism. I plan on making my own cartoon, where Galactic Warriors use scented candles and feng shui to increase their power level, then opening a New Age store to capitalize on the boom.

Rules for watching: Don't.

Actually along with your opinion as a wise film critic i agree with all but the following above. Dragonball is a great anime based on strength, friendship, quests, and wishes in the world of fantasy. In my opinion i would think of the Dragonball sagas as more of a new age Might and Magic/Dungeon and Dragons remix with alott of thrown in reference to the arts of Chi-Gung and Teet Kune Do *Bruce Lee's fighting styles based off of chi and the multiple ways of using it*.
Also, If you ever watched a small section of Dragonball instead of a first time ditch effort. You would begin to realize the greatness of these plots, although i do admit that it does attract more males then females.
the Rules for Watching: Watch this open minded and always expect to be entertained at every end.
Also
There are film dubbs, but there are also precise translations for sale **Your nearest Sam Goody**
You may/must have been confused with dragonball Z, i admit Dragonball Z began to take it too far into fantasy, possibly why akira stopped producing it further after 1992.
But dragonball is a treat for all ages.

Ack, I forgot about the DBZ movies. (I have not seen any DB or DBGT movies.)

Anyone watching one of the movies first can't be blamed for not getting into the series. At least not the movies that have been shown on Toonami so far. (I hear the others are bad too, but I have not seen them.) Avoid just about all of them except maybe Dead Zone, which has consequences in later DBZ episodes (but not in the manga).

The movies have little to no continuity. They don't show character growth because the characters have to remain the same for the series. The villans only last for the duration of the movie. The plot is always: see hero get beat up, see hero destroy villan. The hero is usually Goku. Sometimes it is Gohan. The rest of the characters can usually only offer support.

They are like made-for-tv movies that end up as single episodes that went on too long... Actually, some of them were just specials I guess. Unfortunately, others were released in theaters.

Reviews for all of the DBZ movies can be found at http://www.planetnamek.com/dbzmovies.html. Not even the fans usually think they are anything more than bad action movies with possibly good animation. More attention is sometimes paid to the quality of the translation than of the movie, leading to critics possibly drooling over polished turds.

PS: I am used to the Funimation series voices. I think Pioneer had some I was not fond of. Sometimes I think the movie voice acting could be done better. However, I am used to the series and have not watched a movie lately to compare. I have heard a high pitched Japanese Krillan that I am not fond of. I'm not sure about other Japanese voices.

I didn't ditch it after one time... in fact, I watched an episode of Dragonball Z last night (Warriors of the Dead, I believe it was called) just to see if I was missing something. I do this, not incredibly often, but every once in a while.

I said Dragonball rather than specifying Z or GT or Y or K9 or whatever because I'm talking about the pantheon of poorly dubbed Dragonball cartoons... I can't say for certain that I've seen samplings from all ofsagas/series/whatevers, but I've certainly seen my share of pieces here and there.

Yes, Dragonball is based on wishes and hopes and dreams and friendships and so on, and yes, it's based on chi and martial arts and all that crap. And you forgot to mention this, but it has a richly detailed multidimensional world complete with its own cosmology that strikes a comfortable balance between traditional metaphysics and original creation.

Great. Know what? Still SUCKS. Dubbed at least, it does all of those things, but it doesn't do any of them well. It may speak of great things, but I'd prefer it does so at above a third grade level... and the martial arts/chi/ki thing is a huuuuge turn off for me, because it's got such a muddled interpretation of everything... again, I'm sure a lot of things are being lost in translation, but that only explains the quality, it doesn't excuse it. If they'd invest the time and money in making a quality translation, they'd have a quality show. They didn't, so they don't.

And I always watch a TV with an open mind. I'm not afraid to make up my mind without viewing, but that opinion, like any opinion I hold, is something I cling to only until its proven wrong, and I'm certainly not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. You know what show I was sure was stupid, contrived, predictable, and degrading to women when it came out? Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Didn't watch it ONCE until midway through season 4, when I hooked up with my current girlfriend and she got me to sit through and watch an episode. One episode. That's all it took... and it didn't take long before I knew the relationships, continuities, dangling plot threads, subtexts, foreshadowings, and all that other garbage better than people who'd watched it from the beginning... and Buffy is a show where they started showing shadowy glimpses of the Season III menace back in Season I, where they had mentions of a character who only came into existence in Season V buried back in Season III, and so on. Their stories drag on for years.

I did the same thing when I started watching Babylon V, another show often cited for complex plots and rich character developments... bottom line: don't tell me I'd have to watch a season of Dragonball before I'll "get it". If a story's compelling, I catch on quick.

Overall, DBZ is made for Japanese 12 year olds. I just tend to like it because I never got to see those things when I was younger. It's not a great show, it's just better than a lot of the crap I was fed.

Too much of the show is filler. That alone is reason to dislike it if it did not already offer you something. Here is a rundown that should show the poor organization that can't attract new fans:


Saiyan Saga - Decent introductions, villans, action, and show of willingness to make the lead characters taste pain (and not just physical).

Furiza Saga - Funny villans, decent revelations, and a five minute battle that lasts like a month so the climax is ruined.

Garlic Jr. Saga - Its only claim to fame is that it gives Dead Zone, a DBZ movie, a place in continuity. Some might like the action, but it's a cheap thrill. If it wasn't there, you either wouldn't notice or would be happy.

Android Saga - Decent story with references to events from Dragonball, but it seems they were running out of ideas at this point. Villans from the earlier parts had relations with the characters within DBZ. The creators had to go all the way back to Dragonball just for a minor amount of credibility.

Cell Game - Good character growth and what seemed like improvement in choreography (not that it was based on anything, just seemed more complex). What characters had not come full circle were almost there. It would have been a good place to stop.

Afterlife Tournament - No villan. No cause. No reward. It's fighting game... minus the interaction that makes one great. Cut it.

Great Saiyaman Saga - Smallville minus any villans and very little of the crush on Lana. (No plot.) Tell Superboy he was only cute when he was younger.

Buu Saga - Slow start but has a decent redemption story. Unfortunately, Toonami ran out of translated episodes right as it got good. In theory Toonami will be playing the later, more interesting bits, of the saga during the day this week or next week.


J.M.S. had a plan for Babylon 5. Joss Whedon keeps firm control over Buffy the Vampire Slayer. DBZ had bad Bandai toys to keep selling.


Lesbian Assassin wrote:

I didn't ditch it after one time... in fact, I watched an episode of Dragonball Z last night (Warriors of the Dead, I believe it was called) just to see if I was missing something. I do this, not incredibly often, but every once in a while.

[snip]

Warriors of the Dead is in the beginning of the Afterlife Tournament. What you missed was a vain attempt to fill the void left by what soul DBZ once had by sucking your soul out of your body while you watched. (Although it is supposedly more cool, I thought roughly the same about the psychic saga in Babylon 5.)


PS: I still say try Digimon. =) Worst games of monster raising. Best shows. Seasons are petty much new shows rather than one long cartoon, but they are all pretty good.