Mr.Professional wrote:

~True, but like Tom said alot of BYOND's money comes from anime games. I honestly do not think BYOND can take a hit like that at this moment, but I know nothing so yeah.

I think you are overestimating the effect of the front-page on existing players. Truth is, we changed the entire site around a few weeks ago and it hasn't changed our numbers one bit (traffic has declined a little as expected due to the season-- kids being back in school-- but pretty much everything is the same). The fangames are still there; heck they are still even listed. People will still play them. The main difference is that, hopefully, new users will see the other games a little better now, and new developers will see that making original game is an option to attract players by virtue of the increased visibility.

There are a heck of a lot more people out there looking for fun original games to play then there are looking for a crappy Naruto rip to grind in.

~Pls tell me a few. Not that I play naruto rips. But like i said above i think only decadence and sunday the 19th are the only original games that interest me so far.

I think he's referring to the general public, not the current BYOND audience. Most BYONDers are fangame-players because they found BYOND through a fangame search. We're trying to change that.

SilkWizard wrote:

Worse, no real Anime or Fan Game developers even exist anymore. 99% of the games are rips, and 100% of them use the same gameplay style.

What worries me the most is how accurate that statement really is. It would be neat if someone started mapping the anime games like they would an evolutionary tree. Zeta would be the common ancestor with each revision going off into a new branch.

Anyway, the way I see it having a "Show Fangames" button is still giving fangames special treatment. Why should they get a big dedicated button when every other game has to use the tags? Fangames should use the tags just like every other game.

SilkWizard wrote:

SuperAntx wrote:

Anyway, the way I see it having a "Show Fangames" button is still giving fangames special treatment. Why should they get a big dedicated button when every other game has to use the tags? Fangames should use the tags just like every other game.

I agree. In fact, that's pretty much the exact argument I made to Tom when that button first appeared.

To be fair, fangames aren't treated like every other game in that, while they use tags, they don't appear without the tag (in the "all" sort). I think, however, this is balanced by the plethora of such games in the system and the fact that non-fangames really stand to benefit from the extra promotion.

SuperAntx wrote:

Anyway, the way I see it having a "Show Fangames" button is still giving fangames special treatment. Why should they get a big dedicated button when every other game has to use the tags? Fangames should use the tags just like every other game.

True.

SilkWizard wrote:

Worse, no real Anime or Fan Game developers even exist anymore. 99% of the games are rips, and 100% of them use the same gameplay style.

Very True.

SlikWizard wrote:

While original games have to work for their players, fan games can cash in on someone else's hard work and draw players in with name recognition, etc. In the end I think that this new system pretty much balances everything out.

Truth moar.

~Okay, im man enough to admit when im wrong Q-Q Well played >.>

It's not an "elitist claim," it's a valid criticism of anime games based on solid evidence. The fact they're commonly referred to as a genre is proof of this. It's not because they're based on anime, it's because they all play exactly the same. There may be a few gimmicks thrown in here and there, but the core gameplay mechanics have always remained the same.

Try comparing similar games of any other actual genre. Decadence and Proelium II are both tactical shooters in a modern setting, players capture objectives while killing each other. Sounds similar on paper but while Proelium focuses on class-based combat with many non-weapon abilities Decadence has projectile accuracy and cover mechanics. They play nothing like each other. The first Proelium differs even more by being in a fantasy setting. Teridal and NEStalgia are both ORPG's yet they neither look or play like each other at all.

The only thing Castle, Space Station 13, Last Robot Standing, Casual Quest, Wargames, Ultimatum, Incursion and all those other featured games have in common is the fact none of them play like the other. They're completely unique experiences here on BYOND. You just don't get that sort of diversity with anime games. There has been almost no innovation since the original Zeta was created.

RPG's are a genre, and have similar traits.

You mean like stat names? Because I dare say you're ignorant if you're going to say Final Fantasy 5, 10, and any Dragon Quest game play similarly. Or to a further extreme, to say Zelda plays like either (granted Zelda has been bad since the 3D shift, it's still an RPG).

If that wasn't the case, Halo And Call of Duty never would have gotten the fan-base they did.

Granted, this shouldn't even be an argument, considering we're talking games with potential. How CoD rehashes (not sequels/etc, there's no differences... FPSes, bah) sell so much I have no idea.

There are games in the anime genre that differentiate things and switch things up. One of the long term goals of the Phoenix project is to do just that, in fact.

Show one. No seriously, show one. There's been so many that've been "in planning to revolutionize BYOND anime" and never come out.

Moonlight Memento wrote:

RPG's are a genre, and have similar traits.

You mean like stat names? Because I dare say you're ignorant if you're going to say Final Fantasy 5, 10, and any Dragon Quest game play similarly. Or to a further extreme, to say Zelda plays like either (granted Zelda has been bad since the 3D shift, it's still an RPG).

If that wasn't the case, Halo And Call of Duty never would have gotten the fan-base they did.

Granted, this shouldn't even be an argument, considering we're talking games with potential. How CoD rehashes (not sequels/etc, there's no differences... FPSes, bah) sell so much I have no idea.

There are games in the anime genre that differentiate things and switch things up. One of the long term goals of the Phoenix project is to do just that, in fact.

Show one. No seriously, show one. There's been so many that've been "in planning to revolutionize BYOND anime" and never come out.

I don't think anything I post here would influence you, given your reply to the whole CoD/Halo thing. It seems like you're attributing some artistic quality to games, which are meant to be fun, over fine art. However, here goes.


How we go over the first game in development in the Phoenix development project? DBZ: Phoenix.

It is the one that's most familiar to folks, as it was originally late era Finale, until Bishamon and I were given the rights to code a spinoff game. We set about polishing the mechanics, and fixing every bug we could find. Then we moved onto new features.


To date we, have implemented:

Pseudo Newtonian gravity in space. Movement without controlled propulsion is inadvisable, as you will continue moving in a given direction until you bump into something solid. Given that space really is infinite (Another new feature.), the odds of you actually bumping into something are low. However, this can be mitigated by skills like fly, or using a space-worthy vehicle.

On a side-note, this leads to some interesting tricks in combat, in space. As some people will toggle off inertial dampeners on things like Pods (If they cannot survive outside one.) to try and do off more complicated tricks, like "sliding" through space to strafe an object. Which also goes into the whole "make combat more dynamic and tactical" philosophy i've got.

Refined basic gameplay features to a polished sheen (The "WoW" approach.). Several contributors to the project pretty much went into the guts of the game, and mathematically rebuilt the races to each be balanced with one-another. On my end, I spend a good deal of my time fine tuning features, implementing new back-end/front-end features with proper mathematical balancing (The ranking systems, for instance.), to ensure a quality gameplay experience.

Partially finished implementing RTS enabling features. Any player can currently create a robotic "Drone" (Similar to the ones in GT.), which can be commanded, has friend or foe identification, can be sold off to another player, and can guard or attack areas. They're essentially mecha mooks that can be built en-masse.

That particular system is being expanded in the near future, to factional control. Players can hire henchmen, take over regions (That will be explained later.), and generally be more of a "Frieza", then a "Goku", if they so choose.


Introduced and polished the basic features that let players design their own game. Some folks have pretty much re-created (Much to my own chagrin. I was hoping they'd take the opportunity to make a more original setting.) One Piece from the ground up several times now. They even got boats working using the administrative/developmental tools that were provided. It's been pointed out that that's the least they could do. Entirely new planets, PVE dungeons, and the works, can be made, if a player wants too, currently.

New planet states that I don't believe any game has implemented yet. If you're underground. You can dig out tiles as an alternative to traditional resource gathering techniques. You can also use those dug out tiles to construct your own haven, home, lair, base, whatever. There are also temperature states. If you're on a cold planet. It will be cold. And if you're not at DBZ levels of power, that can be dangerous if you don't take steps to ensure your safety. Weather is also reflected according to planetary or regional temperature.

On a side-note, weather can also play a factor in early game functionality. As certain types of extremely bad weather on certain planets (Heavy blizzards, for instance.), can white out the screen. Requiring alternate methods of finding a location, or enemy, if you're in a fight.

A large number of advanced back-end systems were introduced as well. Like a dynamic player panel that lets any administrator of appropriate rank control or fix any aspect of the game related to players, within a few seconds.

A new NPC AI and region system that spawns objects, weather, mobs, and controls the world via each region on each planet was recently added in. This system eliminates alot of the lag that standard mob assignment and usage systems on most anime games cause. A server built for hosting can run at 10 percent CPU capacity with well over 100 people online, rather then 100 percent capacity, like most Finale style games were before.

In addition to that, the regional AI system handles things like weather, mob hostility/placement, and other lovely stuff based on the region. Allowing for dynamic alterations of areas of the planet.

Which in turn means each region can be vastly different from one another in setting, safety, and design, rather then a unilateral "this Z level is dangerous/this one is not" sort of deal that most anime games go with when it comes to AI and environment safety.


I could go on with more features, but you can check this topic if you're interested in learning more.

http://dbzphoenix.proboards.com/ index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1400

I set up a rough developmental checklist of what's been done, and what hasn't, from some of my personal notes, some time ago. I've been meaning to finish the check-list, but time hasn't been on my side lately. And as it is, it gives a good outline on some of the stuff we intend to do.


Now, this time i'm really done posting here. I've got to focus on other issues. And I didn't make this topic to debate over whether or not anime games were "worthwhile", or not.

given your reply to the whole CoD/Halo thing. It seems like you're attributing some artistic quality to games, which are meant to be fun, over fine art. However, here goes.

What?

It is the one that's most familiar to folks, as it was originally late era Finale, until Bishamon and I were given the rights to code a spinoff game. We set about polishing the mechanics, and fixing every bug we could find. Then we moved onto new features.

And think, nothing is actually playable, you just said it's a rip, etc...

Now, this time i'm really done posting here. I've got to focus on other issues. And I didn't make this topic to debate over whether or not anime games were "worthwhile", or not.

Yeah, I'm sure you are.

I can see where everyone can grow tired of seeing the same exact game renamed with different admins.

You mean all anime games on BYOND?

Mr.Professional wrote:

That's not exactly fair. There are several good anime games. DMG,BLN,Naruto evolution, bleach evolution(game isnt out but the icons own) just to name a few. And I hope people aren't assuming anime games are the only ones with rips because byond RPG has a couple rips of its own.

Just leave it alone. Given that last post of his, i'd be inclined to say that Moonlight Memento isn't interested in facts. He's either too full of himself to realize that not all of the fan-games are alike, or he's just trolling the thread (His blog does say the he spent some time trolling. :/).

I was hoping to conclude the discussion on a pleasant note, but he just took six lines from my entire post, misconstrued what I said in those lines, ignored the rest, and amped the condescending personality up to eleven. So yeah. Screw the not posting thing. My patience when it comes to caustic personalities only goes so far.


Can we get a lock on this topic? It's already fulfilled it's purpose. The damn thing is turning into flamebait now.

I wasn't arguing with you in the first place. I've been distinctly trying to ignore your posts ever since you started posting stuff like this:

<There has to be a difference! They don't all play the same! Some require you to press the B button instead of Z to grind!

<Yeah, I'm sure you are.

I can see where everyone can grow tired of seeing the same exact game renamed with different admins.

<You mean all anime games on BYOND?



--- since you can't seem to go a single post without saying something blindingly idiotic and inflammatory in nature.

I was explaining the other side of things and hoping to have a good discussion on the issue. You didn't listen, and instead spent the last two or three posts taking things out of context, ignoring the majority of what I posted, and making some vaguely insulting and confrontational posts in between.

From where I stand, the discussion is over. Technically speaking, the topic did what it was supposed too once Tom posted, and everyone stated their opinions on the actual topic matter.


Hence why i'd prefer this topic get locked. I didn't make it to campaign my agenda, like some folks are.

If you want to crow about how you think all fan-games are the same thing, do it in your own damn topic. This topic was for discussing the show fan-games button on the hub. That question was answered some time ago.