Sometimes a game becomes to boring for some or another reason. Perhaps it's too mundane, perhaps it just lost it's flare.
This is a post to discuss WHY some games, even great ones, become too boring after a while.
ID:151875
Dec 6 2008, 2:23 pm
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Dec 6 2008, 2:29 pm
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Because people grow up, well, most people anyway.
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In response to Stephen001
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An interesting answer. But I would preferr a detailed explanation. sometimes there's no reason... and thats what irks me.
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In response to Developous
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I'm sorry, but until the original post is worded like a design philosophy question, I'm going to struggle with treating it as such. I can guess what you are trying to ask (How do I design X for replay value?), but it's so vague I could well end up answering a bunch of things that you don't care for.
I very nearly moved the topic to Community when I first read it, because of the wording. |
Besides what Stephen said, Grinding</a href> is one of the main reasons too.
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Something I learned while people were playing Generiquest was, people get bored when they have nothing to do. Also, regardless of how fast you work, people can always play anything you make faster than you can ever make it.
Once people run out of things to do, they are stuck with grinding on some way, shape or form. Whether that is getting stronger (by killing stuff), or collecting items (by killing stuff, or making them) they are grinding. And people get bored of doing the same thing over and over and over again. People will ALWAYS get bored of a game, and there is nothing you can do about this other than continually add new stuff to it. Even then, people will still get bored of it, because it is just impossible to add new stuff to a game faster than people are getting bored of it. The only advice I can give is this. Before releasing the game make sure it has a lot of stuff to do. I'm not talking about a few hours, or even 10-20 hours. I am talking about 100-200 hours at minimum. 100 hours might keep a person of average intellect entertained for maybe... 2-3 weeks. Secondly, I would advise you set up and make the game in a very efficient way. As efficiently as possible, and set up systems and methods that reduce the time it takes to add new things to as short as possible. The quicker you can add things, the longer it will take for people to catch up to you, and the longer they will be entertained. Also, though it is not always possible (especially for games like RPGs), try to add as much replayability to the game as possible. Anyway, from what I have seen of your game Sigma Metaverse, it is basically one huge grinding game. The objective is to make items, so you can make more items, so you can make even more items. And it is executed in a very dull way (click on a button, then wait a few minutes, and repeat this each time). The item creation system is done in a very dull way, and outside of that I saw nothing worth doing. There was no interesting storylines or quests to involve myself in, no unique locations/dungeons for me to explore, no challenging puzzles to pit my witts against, nor was there any particularly dangerous foes which required me to devise an ingenious strategy and then fight to the death against. Make the games item creation system more involving and fun, and then add everything I listed above. That way, people wont get bored of the game as fast. |
In response to The Magic Man
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100 hours might keep a person of average intellect entertained for maybe... 2-3 weeks. That's insane. How long do these example people play video games a day?! Two weeks would be about 7 hours of playing a day, 4 1/2 in the case of three weeks! |
In response to The Magic Man
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thanks kindly.
I was only in the origins stage, but just added 'Chapter 2'. There is a plotline, but it's weak at first. Look in tutorial for it. It has reached the 'discovery' stages of the rpg. |
In response to Jeff8500
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I was getting these "example" people playing for 3-10 or so hours a day, or 7 days a week. So it's not unreasonable to say that is a decent guess.
I thought the 10-15 hours worth of stuff to do in Generiquest would keep people entertained for at least 4-7 days. Most people were getting through it all in 1-2 days. But yeah, in a RPG keeping people entertained for any period of time requires absolutely insane amounts of stuff to do. (When I talk about people of average intellect I am not talking about those people who do not enjoy grinding for long periods of time). |
In response to Developous
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It is fine and dandy saying you'll do, or have done these things. But most people do not care about what you say, they want to see what you have done, if they cannot see you have done it, then for all intents and purposes it might as well have not been done.
The "storyline" in the tutorial. All you are doing is telling them there is a storyline, but they cannot take part in it, and infact they cannot see it at all in the game. I doubt anyone even cares about it, simply because they cannot take part in it in any way, shape or form. Until you start adding a storyline in the game that people can actually play then your storyline is not something that will attract or keep people entertained at all. |
In response to The Magic Man
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Something I learned while people were playing Generiquest was, people get bored when they have nothing to do. Also, regardless of how fast you work, people can always play anything you make faster than you can ever make it. I'm not sure I'd agree with that. The depths of variability offered by, say, Solitaire, have almost certainly never been plumbed by any individual card-player, and it's not even updated regularly any more! Games like Starcraft are still amazingly fun, even so long after their release, because human opponents will almost certainly challenge you in new and interesting ways. As a more general example, consider a game consisting of some number n of game mechanics - what those mechanics are is irrelevant. We will assume they all interact with each other in some interesting way - strictly speaking that isn't a requirement, but it makes the proof that your claim is false easier to see if that is the case. Assume players can 'play out' combinations of game mechanics at some rate p. We'll keep it simple by only considering combinations of two mechanics at a time. That means it'll take n*(n-1)/p time units before the game is 'played out'. Let's assume you can add mechanics to the game at some rate r. How many combinations are you adding every time step? You're adding r*(n+r-1) combinations every time step, where n is the number of combinations last time step. Note that that means the rate of game-mechanic-combination increase isn't linear - it's not r. It's not linearly proportional to r. Each extra game mechanic you add is 'worth more', because it can interact with all the previous mechanics. As this means the rate of game-mechanic-combination increase can increase indefinitely with time, even given a small, constant r, you can add stuff faster than it can be played out, if you assume the premises I've assumed. The basic requirements are complex game mechanics that can interact in interesting ways. When you add, say, ranged weapons to your roguelike, that leads to new possibilities for old mechanics like monster AI. If you've got that, then you can easily develop faster than players can play, once the game is reasonably complicated. Hell, there's a point where the game just can't be practically 'played out' - Dwarf Fortress, Simcity, Super Smash Bros. and Starcraft are all games I've played that, in my opinion, have that property. |
In response to Jp
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Ignoring all the math you tried to do (which makes no sense at all!) all those games you listed have one thing that determines how long their playtime is, and that is replayability.
Simcities playtime before you get bored of it isn't determined by how much content it has (which is what I was talking about), each time you play the game it is in someway different, which is what makes it replayable. Also, from what I learned, adding "new game mechanics" (in my case, new character classes for people to play with) added very little replayability to the game, since people were still playing the same things, just in a minorly different way. Even when those classes had entirely new mechanics that no other class had, and led to interesting strategies during gameplay. I found that adding new classes, items, abilities and so on didn't keep people entertained for very long (for the amount of work put in). But adding new dungeons, quests and bosses had a much greater pay off in how long they would keep a player interested (for me it was about 10 hours of work, translated into just over 1 hour of playtime for things like dungeons/quests). This isn't always the case, but in any game that relies heavily on content and stuff to do, it will almost always take you a lot longer to make stuff than people can play it. |
In response to The Magic Man
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TMM:
Ignoring all the math you tried to do (which makes no sense at all!) [..] Not to entirely cut in and totally break this apart, but it does make sense. Imagine time on the x axis. As time goes on, the factors change. |
In response to The Magic Man
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In a persistent game, a character class tends to require grinding through the same content again. Classes are mutually exclusive, but they can all experience dungeons, quests, and bosses. It makes sense for developers to focus on content for the widest market instead of content which players may feel costs too much time and effort.
In a session-based game, players just pick their new pieces during the next match. Scenarios (which could be the analog of dungeons, quests and bosses) tend to be mutually exclusive, but the pieces can be used in all of them. It makes sense for developers to focus on content that players can, with minimal effort, use throughout the game rather than content which is only valid during a particular session. |
In response to Jp
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As you add more mechanics and start integrating them into existing systems, you'll find r rises sharply. You'll still reach a stalemate if given enough time.
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Find out what makes people want to play your game and add more of it.
I checked it out because of the promise of choice. Your Creations post stated you could find the Demon King and kill him, or not. I liked that 'or not' option. Actually, just having the option was enough to get me interested. Then I saw all your item creation stuff, which took forever to figure out, and that got me interested in seeing what neat things there were to make. After a while, I got bored with making things and getting killed by monsters. If there was more of that story around, and more choices to be made regarding our place in the story, I'd probably have stuck around longer. I like the concept, it was just a little too thin in the "stuff to do" dept. |
If you want to keep players playing your game, you have to toy with the figures of a lot of (interesting) content, gradual content discovery, limiting factors, and giving human players a lot of room to make individual choice decisions.
The Final Fantasy series (one of the best-selling video game franchises of all time) meets all of this criteria. Each Final Fantasy game has an amazing amount of content (from your typical shop items, to the evolving storylines, differing characters, characters' abilities, etc.). The limiting factors change on a game-by-game basis, but I'll list some here:
The Pokémon games also meet this criteria. There is a large (and ever-expanding) amount of content, and very little of it is available at the start of each game. The modern games have a few hundred Pokémon and a ton of items (some of which can be held by Pokémon to create interesting tactics in battles). Each Pokémon is limited in what abilities they can learn, and the abilities they can use are limited by what level the Pokémon are and what 4 abilities the player chooses (among many, creating numerous possibilities). One of the most important factors here is the fact of gradual discovery (compare the fun of playing one of these games normally to, say, using a GameShark at the beginning to make your level-100-dream-team with top stats and preferred abilities: the latter method is very dull). Super Smash Bros. has characters, items, etc. to unlock. In a fight with items turned on, the items appear gradually, rather than all at once (though I suppose it would be interesting to see a ton of junk spawn at the beginning and have the players vie for the best ones). Players are limited by their characters' relative strengths, weaknesses, abilities, and locations, and are constantly placed in a situation where the choice of what buttons they press affects the outcome of the game. I'm done trying to drive this point home, but I think those are some of the vital points to making an interesting and long-lasting game. |
Developous wrote:
Sometimes a game becomes to boring for some or another reason. Perhaps it's too mundane, perhaps it just lost it's flare. I think a lot of it is predictability. A game gets dull when you know where all the quest givers are, what the best items are, and when you could almost literally draw a map of enemy spawn points. Every game suffers from this unconditionally, the only variable is how long it takes. |
In response to Mobius Evalon
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"Every game suffers from this unconditionally, the only variable is how long it takes."
'Cept, y'know, Left 4 Dead. And dwarf fortress. |
This is an incredibly broad subject touching on the elements of Game Design.
What you need to do is to not take The Magic Mans advice. What works for one game doesn't necessarily work for another, and solving 'boredom' isn't a question that you can answer per se. Not having fun is the end result, something a player arrives at through the rest of your game. A few things to take into account, some of which has already been touched on here: * Content creation (if worth a dime) without artificial roadblocks takes anywhere upwards of several hundreds of times as long as it will take players to complete said content. Think of MMORPGs which take months developing new dungeons, some of which (most in fact) are completed in less than 2 days. * Artificial roadblocks come in various shapes and sizes. They're also called timesinks. The important thing here is that timesinks aren't necessarily bad, it depends on how they're applied. A simple timesink which most games today have is experience/levelling - You don't instantly level each kill, you have to kill several things. Through a combination of difficulty and time taken, players will usually feel a greater sense of accomplishment if it took work to get somewhere. The key to this is to find the balance between necessary/unnecessary, as well as too much / too little. This is something most all games get wrong and subsequently tweak periodically, because its very hard to find a happy medium. * You should be planning for both casual and hardcore players, unless you very specifically market your game to a narrow target audience. This isn't only about saying, 'This game is for casuals' or 'This game is for hardcores'. If you're marketing to a very specific audience, the entire game has to take that into account - Every feature/decision/part of the game. If you're marketing to a broad audience, the entire game has to take that into account as well. * Never implement a feature 'just because', 'because game X has' or 'To punish players'. There is a secret to punishing players without them getting so pissed they drop the game: It has to make sense, it has to convey a feeling of fairness (Random punishment is *never* good unless it is within the scope of humor and is harmless to the player) and it has to be predictable. There was a MUD that had death traps (Rooms that you entered and simply died on entering) with no warnings around, that shifted location randomly. Needless to say, that feature was very unpopular. Another MUD had deathtraps in specific locations and context-hints in surrounding rooms to warn you - That was fine. * To extend on the above: Your game has to make sense as a whole and this is something many new / young developers forget. You can't simply mix and mash features from random games because the features worked for that game. You'll end up with a game that makes no sense and isn't fun. To help with this, companies (and indie developers alike) often come up with general 'goals' for the project to always keep in mind. A set of golden rules perhaps, that all features HAVE to abide by. This is a way of mentally restriccting yourself from wandering off the road, so to speak. Some easy ways to make a game boring, to bridge from the theorycraft above: * If the primary focus of the game is combat and combat is dull, the game will by extension be dull. * If the game tries to push exploring as a primary element and the rest of the game doesn't carry that, the game will be incoherent/dull/meaningless. * Making players travel long distances to reach 'fun areas', with the long distances filled with 'not fun' things or waiting - Thats not fun. Keep in mind what distance does: It does increase the percieved size of the world, but if the majority of said size is filled with uninteresting, dull, repetetive terrain then that size is just wasted. * Making players jump through 'not fun' to get to 'fun'. This is a very common mistake. This is usually done to keep players in the game longer, but this is the WRONG type of timesink. Never intend on making players do something you know is full of 'not fun'. These are some small pointers. There is such a huge amount of things to take into consideration when you ask this sort of question. If you had an end-all answer to this, I'm sure you'd be rich pretty fast ;) In the end, its about entertainment, tolerance, psychology (both game to person, and person to person), a little bit of luck, stereotypes and more. |