So I was thinking about how most FRPG games focus primarilly on combat and how craft and knowledge skills are often underutilized. So I listed out skill ideas I had:
Combat Skills (12)
Archery
Axe
Block
Brawl
Cudgel
Dagger
Dodge
Misc.
Polearm
Reflex
Sword
Throwing
Craft Skills(9)
Armorcraft
Jewelcraft
Leathercraft
Metalcraft
Spellcraft
Stonecraft
Threadcraft
Weaponcraft
Woodcraft
Lore Skills (7)
Arcane Lore
Alchemy
Aerb Lore
Animal Lore
Arms Lore
Literacy
Medicine
Manual/Physical Skills(11)
Artistry
Foraging
Meditation
Musicianship
Stealing
Locksmithy
Tracking
Animal Training
Stealth
Swimming
Magic Skills(9)
Aeromancy
Animism
Divination
Enchantment
Geomancy
Hydromancy
Necromancy
Pyromancy
Thaumaturgy
For a total of 48 skills.
Now, I immediately noticed that there are more Combat skills than any other group and that knowledge based skills is the smallest group. This bothers me a bit. Does anyone have any ideas for non-combat skills that would add something to a standard FRPG? Overlap is okay, so long as the skill would require specific knowledge/training in a particular area (hence metal craft and armor craft are two separate, but related, skills).
ID:153170
 Nov 9 2004, 10:46 am
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Nov 9 2004, 11:03 am
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Kholintian Destroying Army
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"Theoretical Physics"
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Kholintian Destroying Army wrote:
"Theoretical Physics" The use of computers and other technology in order to simulate calculations of physics. AHhh I cant remember the exact defenition. But its somthing like that. | |
I assume this is supposed to be a witty reply, as I do not understand how theoretical physics would apply to any game based around a pseudo-medieval tech level....
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Jmurph wrote:
I assume this is supposed to be a witty reply, as I do not understand how theoretical physics would apply to any game based around a pseudo-medieval tech level.... "pseudo"-medieval. Anyway, Wizards are REALLY intelligent guys, who says they can't have things ahead of their times? (and let me remind you the first computer was made of wood, back AGES ago, and it calculated the creator's dad's tax/maths he needed to do. | |
How about these?
Lore Skills: -------------- Agronomy (knowledge of farming practices and harvesting, basically) Astrology (knowledge and study of the zodiacs and character traits) Astronomy (knowledge of the heavenly bodies and navigation) Devine Lore (study and knowledge of religions, gods, ancient scriptures, holy myths, sacred legends and whatnots. Not for worship, persay, but for wisdom.) Craft Skills: --------------- Waxworks (Crafting objects out of wax, namely candles, but also seals, resins for finishing certain weaponry and leather, graven images for rituals (like voodoo dolls) and mold-making for casting objects.) Claycraft (Crafting objects in clay and softstone. Can also be used for casting molds, but after firing the mold, it can be used to cast harder, hotter materials like bronze.) Skincraft (tatooing (temp or perm), piercing, scarring and branding, probably mainly for magical purposes, but can also be for art or identifying animals and criminals) Manual/Physical Skills: --------------- Acrobatics (balance, coordination, climbing, tumbling and gymnastics) Contortion (twisting your body into unusual positions, a good skill for thieves, but can also be used in ritual or spellcasting (knotting the fingers, gesture and pose)) Riding (how to ride animals for travel, horses, camels, mules, large winged creatures and marine mammals like whales and dolphins) Magic Skills: --------------- Exorsism (Casting out of demons, breaking curses and reversing or reducing the effects of malevolent magics and enchantments of any sort) Meditation (similar to divination, but without the hinderence of a medium, also offers remote viewing, astral travel and communication with the living and the dead, higher or lower spiritual beings and the ability to summon small bits knowledge at will) Mentalism (psychic skills like telepathy, psychokenesis, pyrokenesis, levitation and such) Meh, all I could think of right now. ~X | |
Some very nice ideas, Xooxer. I particularly like:
Astrology (combining the astrology and astronomy ideas.) Waxcraft Claycraft Acrobatics (maybe instead of a dodge skill?) Riding Meditation Maybe you can help me with mining. Most games just make a mining skill. But usually in primitive societies, they would simply find ore and then just excavate in that area. There was no special "mining" knowledge. So I thought maybe an excavation skill might be more appropriate, but it just helps you move earth quickly and safely, not necessarilly find anything useful (that is determined by where you dig). Thoughts? | |
Mining is really too general a term. It's like saying digging, or as you put it, excavation. There had to be a purpose to it. Every mine is different, not just in it's layout, composition and structure, but also in how it was used, what it produced and its inherit dangers and risks. If you were to mine stone, for example, you'd work in a quary. These were open pits in the ground, usually, and were probably much safer than mines used to harvest gold, coal or iron ore.
I don't think ancient peoples simply started digging without any idea of what they were doing. I am certain there was knowledge and insights used to determine where to dig, or at the very least, long-known sites rich with minerals ready for mining. I would give them the benefit of the doubt, though, and conclude that they did in fact have knowledge of mining. Also, just digging is not enough. You can only dig so far before you run into problems, such as airflow, stability in the mine, noxious gases and the watertable. They had to know how to deal with these situations, especially stability. Also, there are often side-effects of mining, like acids forming, pollution of the surounding area and health risks. All of these factors would have been considered. Well, maybe not pollution so much, but it was at least known about. Then there's the trouble of transporting the minerals. A single person can't carry very much iron ore, maybe enough to make a dagger. To get large amounts, you would need to employ workers, carts, beasts of burden. None of this came cheap. It might take a single person many years to produce enough iron ore to craft a full suit of armor, including a shield and basic weaponry. Before that can even happen, though, you have to turn the iron ore into pure iron. This is another complex proccess iteself, and would probably require at least a week for a single person to refine the ore into workable iron. Mined ore is often wet, and the water would contaminate the metal durring the smelting process. To remove the water, and open fissures in the ore (creating more surface area in the ore, aiding the smelting process) they would roast the ore, evaporating the water. Then the smelting can begin, usually in large bloomeries designed just for smelting iron. This process took some time as well, and each batch the bloomery would have to be cleaned or reconstructed, and made ready for another batch. I won't go into all the details of refining iron ore, but it required charcoal, usually made from hardwoods like oak, ash, grasses and somtimes coal. Billows were used to feed oxygen to the tuyeres, long tubes to protect the billows from heat. The bloomery was constructed, probably while the ore was being roasted, to smelt the ore in. That required clay to make the bloomery airtight and earth and stone, somtimes old slag, for it's construction.  This would produce a bloom, which would be heated again and hammered to remove impurities, or slag, that remained. Only then would you have pure iron ready for use in crafting, which is another long and involved process itself. Of course, this is just a game, and there is no need to consider all of these things. That doesn't mean you should just plop down a Mine verb and give them ore, allowing a smithy to use his Smelt verb to produce iron, and a Craft verb to shape it into objects. There's no fun or challenge in that. I won't tell you how to go about making it fun and challenging, it's your game after all. I'm just saying that Mine, Smelt, and Forge verbs are a poor way to go. Make a puzzle out of it. Perhaps you could employ dowsing to locate viens of minerals, or a Minerological Lore skill to determin where the best places to start excavation would most likely be. Heck, use magic, just make it fun. :P ~X | |
Wow, that was pretty in depth! But I wonder how much is practical for a game, as you pointed out...
My concept is this: Have some sort of lore skill to try to locate a suitable vein. When the vein is located, you dig to begin excavations. When sufficient earth is moved, the actual mining can begin. Basically, you dig out a hole that connects to a runtime created area. At first, there is only 1 square. Players can then excavate further, expanding the open area and hopefully revealing mineral deposits (though unskilled miners run the risk of releasing toxic gasses, water floods, or even vermin). Unfortunately, the walls and ceiling can collapse, so reinforcing is a good idea (stonecraft or woodcraft to produce beams and supports). The raw ore is heavy and full of impurities, but can be refined and smelted at the proper facilities. Softer metals are much easier to work, and produce workable ore much faster. After the ore is suitably cleaned, it can be poured into molds or otherwise worked into a product. How does something like that sound? | |
Tedious. :P Exploration seems to be the prime skill here, once a vein is located. Perhaps you could make simple puzzles that require logic and skill to solve, revealing more area to harvest. A simple example would be excavation. How to move the dirt. Lode Wars was built around this facet alone. A more complex example might be how and when to stabalize the shaft. Or overcoming obstables like flooded shafts and gas, acid or natural caverns and chasms that would likely be found deeper in the earth.
A Pyromage could be hired to evaporate the water, carpenters could build supports, and a person could determin their placement according to instabilities they find, like what minerals are in the earth, thier density and other factors like the presense of wetness which might indicate a possible collapse. To remove gases, fires might be started near the entrance of the shaft to draw out the air, but time would have to pass for fresh air to move back in. Coal miners used to employ canaries to warn of poisonous gas, because it was often undetectable. Everyone would run out of the mine if the bird died. The Simpson eluded to this when Bart was playing that trick with the well. Dr. Hibbert: "This cannary died of natural causes." Moe: "Alright! Everyone back in the hole!" Consider the implications of each obstacle. Water would have to be evaporated, but if you don't know if gas is present, you might cause an explosion employing a Pyromage. If acids are present, they would have to be neutralized, which might call for an alchemist. Of course, they would need to be sure the place wasn't going to become unstable, or that there are no critters to attack them. Mining is generally a team effort. many skilled people all preform different jobs to accomplish the task. Consider this, and design puzzles that require teamwork, or at least, many skills, to solve. The reward would be access to more minerals, the challenge would be trying to unlock these by overcoming obstacles in a logical framework. I don't really know. Look up mining practices and see what dangers and solutions people have encountered and employed. Try to make it more than just repetative verb clicking. ~X | |
Oh, verb clicking is what I am trying to avoid:-) But I like the idea of risks aimed at different skills for solutions- IE: digging needs strong workers, good tools and/or geomancers, bracing needs carpenters and stonemasons, flooding needs hydromancers, possibly pyromancers or lots of quick action, gasses need aeromancers, maybe pyros (if not too much gas) and sufficient ventilation. Etc, etc.
I think I can work with this.... | |
Yeah, I was envisioning that a collaps or cave in could very well occur if excavations aren't handled properly (specifically expanding too much without sufficient reinforcement). Of course, their are degrees of collapse ranging from minor to complete!
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Jmurph wrote:
Yeah, I was envisioning that a collaps or cave in could very well occur if excavations aren't handled properly (specifically expanding too much without sufficient reinforcement). Of course, their are degrees of collapse ranging from minor to complete! You could have it, so you get get stuck in the caves, you have to live in there for awhile, living off of the bats or something. =/ Just make every monster drop a source of food or something, so dying doesn't happen a lot from the loss of hunger. Heck, make some food(disgusting) make your comfort go down. =/ | |