I mean no offense to anyone I may unintentionally insult in my upcoming statements.
Lately BYOND has been taking a turn for the worse. Games are being ripped, topics are being overly used to make horrible games (once again, no offense to those who actually put time and effort into these games), and worst of all people are loosing respect for BYOND and the rest of the community. So I decided to do what I can to change this with your help.
First off, we can make BYOND games better by helping each other out a little more. BYOND programming Guru's and icon artists should maybe offer their assistance to some of the newer people working in the DM language.
I also think we should make newer, better, and actually original games for BYOND. Programmers and icon artists should maybe team up, or go solo and make a few projects to shape up BYOND and draw people away from making and playing ripped games.
Now to the rips...DanTom should make a warning about ripped games being simply : If you are caught making, hosting, or playing a ripped game you will be banned from BYOND. The Zeta and GT Genisis rips are what made one of the greatest animes (DBZ) become hated to even see on BYOND. And we cannot afford to let this go on. I don't know about you but I would absolutely want to kill someone if I saw them handing out or editing and taking credit for something I put time and effort into.
And the respect thing...there is not much we can do about that. Some people will just be newbies and disrespect people's work and along with themselves.
I am pretty sure if we work together we can better BYOND and revolutionize online gaming all together.
ID:191902
 Aug 3 2002, 2:01 pm
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I am glad you see what I mean but....I'M NOT DAREB! lol.
~Ray aka Stimulus aka The guy who ain't Dareb~ | |
Yes, i know where your coming from , that very subject sparked my immaturity.
True we all need to work together to make byond a better place. If you have spare money donate to dantom so they can upgrade and host much more easily. Another thing we can all do is avoid the ripped versions and play the originals. the more people support rips the more supported they shall be. And the main reason why people play rips is because of the lack of choice in quality games in byond. We all must work together then, to make more original games. Banning these people definately isnt an option only time pagerbann should ever be used is if a person is flooding or spamming your pager, not if your not agreeing with them or think their game is ripped. So just work together like you said. but not to repress people, instead to encourage others | |
I haven't been with BYOND too long but I can see that DragonBall Z is getting way out of hand. I do like the anime series and a few games, but DBZ is over populating the hub!
And like you said, about the better coders helping the newer ones, well I am going to be making my 1st game soon now that I understand the basics of DM and I could use a little assistance so that the game would be better and I could learn alot from it. Strife | |
Stimulus wrote:
I am glad you see what I mean but....I'M NOT DAREB! lol. I know how you feel, Sariat keeps saying I am this Seto person. Strife | |
Stimulus wrote:
I mean no offense to anyone I may unintentionally insult in my upcoming statements. Try searching the forums to see how many posts say that(or a minor variation of that paragraph). First off, we can make BYOND games better by helping each other out a little more. BYOND programming Guru's and icon artists should maybe offer their assistance to some of the newer people working in the DM language. Why should I take the time to help out someone who can't phrase their setances into something vaguely resembling a language of some sort? All of us are here of our own free will. Forgive me if im not optimistic about helping someone with 'the flying code' or reading through 800 lines of code because they got an indentation error in a different file or segment of code completely unrelated to the subject at hand. Long story short: Those who put effort and thought into their posts, and those who actually spend time trying to achieve what they have a problem doing DO get responses from many people with help. Those who simply say 'I get this at this line> help.' obviously don't get as much. I also think we should make newer, better, and actually original games for BYOND. Programmers and icon artists should maybe team up, or go solo and make a few projects to shape up BYOND and draw people away from making and playing ripped games. There are already some teams out there, and im sure the number will grow with the size of the community. Now to the rips...DanTom should make a warning about ripped games being simply : If you are caught making, hosting, or playing a ripped game you will be banned from BYOND. The Zeta and GT Genisis rips are what made one of the greatest animes (DBZ) become hated to even see on BYOND. And we cannot afford to let this go on.I don't know about you but I would absolutely want to kill someone if I saw them handing out or editing and taking credit for something I put time and effort into. DM is a programming language, just like C is. It's up to you to prevent your source from getting into that someone's hands. It's not Dantom's job to police what you do with your creations. And the respect thing...there is not much we can do about that. Some people will just be newbies and disrespect people's work and along with themselves. Alathon\\ | |
Stimulus wrote:
Lately BYOND has been taking a turn for the worse. Games are being ripped, topics are being overly used to make horrible games (once again, no offense to those who actually put time and effort into these games), and worst of all people are loosing respect for BYOND and the rest of the community. So I decided to do what I can to change this with your help. Rips and overused topics (i.e., DBZ) are nothing new. You're not seeing a new trend; this has been going on, and I don't think the incidence of it has increased. First off, we can make BYOND games better by helping each other out a little more. BYOND programming Guru's and icon artists should maybe offer their assistance to some of the newer people working in the DM language. That happens now, quite often. I help people as much as I can and I know many others do the same. I also think we should make newer, better, and actually original games for BYOND. Programmers and icon artists should maybe team up, or go solo and make a few projects to shape up BYOND and draw people away from making and playing ripped games. The problem is, the people most likely to team up tend to be the people most likely to make the zero-quality games to begin with. Sometimes these teams actually do come out with something good, but it's hard for them to maintain a consistent vision. About the only truly successful development team in all BYOND is DDT. Now to the rips...DanTom should make a warning about ripped games being simply : If you are caught making, hosting, or playing a ripped game you will be banned from BYOND. People have said this before, but if they said this they'd have to enforce it. They don't have time to do that, and it opens the door to some huge issues that their current policy bypasses. As for people playing ripped games, I don't see the point of sanctioning this--besides the danger of banning someone who stops into a game without realizing it's a rip, there's no reason that the time wasted playing a rip wouldn't be punishment enough. The Zeta and GT Genisis rips are what made one of the greatest animes (DBZ) become hated to even see on BYOND. Not true. The vast overrepresentation of DBZ fans in the community is what's made DBZ so hated. Even when rips aren't being made, these people are making original games that tend to be just as poor in quality, and the hub is choked with them. And we cannot afford to let this go on. I don't know about you but I would absolutely want to kill someone if I saw them handing out or editing and taking credit for something I put time and effort into. Totally understandable. And the respect thing...there is not much we can do about that. Some people will just be newbies and disrespect people's work and along with themselves. You're confusing newbies with jerks. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie. We were all newbies once. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
You're confusing newbies with jerks. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie. We were all newbies once. Lummox, you are correct in saying we were all newbies at once, but when I say newbie, I am using it to mean "Anoying, power hungry person". Thats just my way of using the term "newbie" and I am pretty sure quite a bit of people use it the same way. As to new people to BYOND, I consider them beginners unless they are more like a "newbie". ~Ray~ | |
I think you are in a state of confusion. Just because the community is making a turn for the worse, does not mean BYOND is. The community has been making a turn for the worse for a long time now. However, I think we hit rock bottom a long time ago, and are bouncing back up now. I have been seeing more original games on BYOND lately, by people who were making DBZ games. Sure, there are tons of DBZ games on BYOND still, but not as many as before. I mean, people aren't playing them as much. If you notice, the more popular games are games like MLAAS and Tanks.
The "Programming Gurus" as you say, are making tons of contributions towards making BYOND a better community. Just the other day, I checked out Shadowdarkes new CO-OP game based off the old missile command game. I have to say, I was very impressed. I think the "Programming Gurus" are better off making their own games than helping others make their games. Then they would most likely be helping to make more rip-offs. Most of the new "programmers"(quoted for a reason) here are set on making DBZ games, and you won't be able to change their mind. I have found them to be very stubborn, and people like that are not worth helping anyway. People are throwing out fun BYOND games all the time now, and believe it or not, it is not just the Gurus. The other day, I checked out BYOND Arena. That game looked cool as hell. In fact, I had always wanted to make a game like it, but it looks like somebody beat me to it. I was suprised when I saw who made it, because I had never heard of him. Ghaleon. Anyway, that is what sparked me to hury up and release my Savefile Hub library. It seemed like the game really needed a centralized server to store player files because each time you played on a new server, you lost your character. I am still hoping more people will sign up after it gets released to BYONDscape. A lot of games could benefit from it. Anyway, BYOND Arena was really cool, I definitely recommend everybody check it out. Anyway, at the time of this post, 13/31 games live are DBZ games. That is 41%, which is so much better than it used to be. Not only are there more games live lately, but there seems to be less interest in dbz games. Most of those 13 dbz games only have 1-3 player(s) in them, and one of them is the host. So as you can see, if anything, the BYOND community is taking a turn for the better. BYOND has always been taking a turn for the better due to amount of hard work being put into it at all times by Dantom and the programmers at BYOND. BYOND will always be getting better, I can see it easily becoming very big. It seems all year and last year has been one long feature creep for DanTom. They have added tons of new features, and they have been debugged pretty well too. BYOND is getting better in every aspect. | |
Maybe we shouldn't hate the DBZ'ers? I am a prime example of why-
I first found BYOND when looking for something to make a graphical DBZ sparring room in. I saw all of the DBZ games and I was like wow, it is really possible. I started gettin on BYOND a lot more an found most of the people who play DBZ games are jerks. They are not helpful unless you use AOLspeak, and never played games for action, only to get their "PL" up. I began to hate the people, and now, I'm completely reformed! I won't have anything to do with the show any more. I will turn my head if I see it on... **raises his hands and shouts "I have seen the light!!"** | |
Stimulus wrote:
First off, we can make BYOND games better by helping each other out a little more. BYOND programming Guru's and icon artists should maybe offer their assistance to some of the newer people working in the DM language. If beginners/newbies/whatever you want to call them ask nicely, they usually get help. If they say something like: "hey THIS SUX I GET AN UNDEFINED PROC ERROR AND IT MAKES NO [bleep]ING SENSE SO [bleep]ING HELP ME YOU [deleted]s!!!!!!", then they should know that that won't make anyone help them. Luckily many beginners realise this and ask their questions sensibly. The newbies who impolitely demand immediate help without giving proper explanations give the rest a bad name. Personally, I usually help people who ask nicely about DM, provided I know the answer. | |
Truth be told there havn't been that many new DBZ games on the hub, it's turning out to be more of a SpaceTug rip off time of the year. I mean when you make a game, off another game, make it different for the better at least. I checked one out the other day and it was almost the exact same as SpaceTug except the ship didn't look like it was moving, when you self destructed nothing died except the alien, the doors didn't open or close, the speed wasn't changed so the alien could have an advantage(Like the people werent slower then the alien), and the ship was different a little bit. I just kind of sat there boggled thinking, "What kind of moron does this, and expects to get any credit?", well since I'm nice that name wont be mentioned, but it was really disguisting as to how non-creative this person was. I have to admit I have been working on an Aliens versus Predator game, but I'm at least putting in my own stuff. I don't know why this person didn't think up ways other then the supposed self destruction sequence either, just the other day I came up with numerous ways of how to kill an alien and a predator without weaponry. Lets see, catch an area on fire and lock off everything, air seel an area and set off the fire alarms so water fills the room trapped the creature to a certain doom(of course they would be able to spew acid on the door, or bust it down to get out and release tons of water), or theres always standing in front of an incinerator and then moving out of the way while it comes for you, letting it slide strait into a fiery doom. Then the alien could always slash off parts of its shell letting out acid blood for any human to step on, or it could always bang into a door until the door flings off its lockings and the human on the other side gets thwapped by it, either killing the human or stunning them for the alien to kill them, oh and can't forget spitting acid(not really my idea, already been done) onto an unsuspecting victim. Then theres always the good old fashioned torching or spewing of whatever weapon you have nearby and hopefully harming the target. Well just some ideas, please use them to your advantage and make a more flexible game.
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
I realize that rips are a problem, but I think that some of them (not all, but at least some) are part of the learning process. If someone wants to learn how to make a game, then they usually go by what they know. When I started making games on BYOND, i ripped other games too. The difference is, I didn't release them. When you are making your first game, it can be hard to think of ideas for it, so why not take ideas from other games. But ripping other games should be used as more of a learning process, not cloning it (which usually results in clones that are worse than the original). When i see a neat feature in a game, I wonder how its done, and then try to do it myself. I think its ok if people copy other games, but please don't put them on BYOND.
Also, I think there should be some sort of rating system. Once you download something from BYOND, you can rate it. That way, it could display whatever it is you are looking through, in order by highest rank. the ratings wouldn't be perfect, but I think it would help weed out some of the rip-offs and otherwise bad games on BYOND. | |
Kusanagi wrote:
Truth be told there havn't been that many new DBZ games on the hub, it's turning out to be more of a SpaceTug rip off time of the year. Just for the record, I don't have any objection at all to anyone making a SpaceTug-like game. I'd prefer if people didn't use the names and icons I've chosen, but as far as gameplay ideas go, I'd actually love to see someone create a SpaceTug-like game that's much better than SpaceTug. (I hope to do it myself one of these days. :) Of course, your post was more about the quality of the game you saw, which is a different matter entirely -- though it's worth remembering that games that start out being fairly simple and straightforward can always evolve into more complex and intriguing ones later on. | |
The problem with the new SpaceTug games though is that they show no future or promise. I saw the exact same thing on every new SpaceTug game and the developers didn't seem to feel that it needed any improvement.
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
LOL!!! Radditz234 made "The Unofficial Space-Tug Sequal" with the exact same icons. And Da_Rushyo made something like... what... "Aliens"? I logged in and said "Woah! Another original game from Da_Rushyo, sweet!" And got pager-banned. That was cool, 1 less person watching me when I hit "Show people watching me".
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Stimulus wrote:
Lummox, you are correct in saying we were all newbies at once, but when I say newbie, I am using it to mean "Anoying, power hungry person". Thats just my way of using the term "newbie" and I am pretty sure quite a bit of people use it the same way. As to new people to BYOND, I consider them beginners unless they are more like a "newbie". You're using the term totally wrong, then, and you should be saying something other than "newbie", because it's not what you really mean. Misusing the term like that puts down all newbies and I think encourages the dimmer-witted among us to do the same. In most cases, the term "DBZer" is good enough. Lummox JR | |
But anyways, you are definately right Dareb...err... Stimulus! We all need to act better. Newbies for ripping, Guru's for hating, and people like me to stop being so immature :-P
I believe you should not be able to host a game until it has been viewed by a hired staff of people on BYOND. After it has been judged, it will be eligable to be hosted. If not, you cannot host it. That would give BYOND more quality games, filtering out the ungodly and annoying rips.