Newbies! Read this before posting on the forums!

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ID:178743
 
Apr 10 2002, 1:21 pm
I know you are anctious to go and ask for help on the forums, But I assure you..Reading this will help you!

Do Nots
1) Ask for free icons.
Bad:Gimme Icons!
Good:I will pay BYONDimes for good icons.
Post these in the Classified Ads section.
2) Swear.
3) Asking for code.
Bad:Gimme Battle Code!!
Good:May I have advice to make a Battle System
4) Posting Mindless Dribble Outside of Code problems!
Bad:Newbie Central:WHEE-HEE-HEE!!
Good:Babble:WHEE-HEE-HEE!!
Do's
1)Use dm and /dm When Inputting code.
2)Tell others coding ideas in 
Design Philosophy
!
3)Give good topic names:Example
Bad:HELP! GIVE ME FIXED CODE!
Good:May I be assisted with this runtime/syntax error?
4)Be sure to include the selected part of your code that has errors when asking for code assistance.Example
Bad:Say Code dont work, help
Good:Say code isnt working, here is code:
mob
 verb
  say(msg = text)
   view("[usr]:[msg]")


Thats 'bout it, now go use the FORUMS!!
Apr 10 2002, 2:13 pm
I dont know.........

Seems kinda odd. So you have to use proper english to ask for help? Hmmmm. Look if a newbie needs help I am willing to help them even if they dont know how to ask for it.

Also,

I am happy to make icons for people for free *shrugs*
Apr 10 2002, 2:47 pm
In response to Winbiko
Anyone can ask for help in any language, they just improve their chances of getting help if they speak the language all the helper people speak :o)
Apr 10 2002, 2:55 pm
In response to Foomer
¿Te gusta BYOND?

*grins evilly*

I don't speak much spanish so I just said the first thing that came to mind, lol
Apr 10 2002, 8:01 pm (Edited on Apr 10 2002, 8:08 pm)
that is so gay, newbies should only follow parts of that like post these types of things in the babble section and put your code in if u ewant it fixed and tell ppl wut the error is and dont tell ppl to give stuff to u ask nicely and keep the forums PG13


thats if they want good help from coders that dont care about propper dgrander and dont care aif oo caint zpell yords thout u magin u upkupull uf zpellin airorz
Apr 11 2002, 3:16 am
In response to Sob
Sob wrote:
that is so gay, newbies should only follow parts of that like post these types of things in the babble section and put your code in if u ewant it fixed and tell ppl wut the error is and dont tell ppl to give stuff to u ask nicely and keep the forums PG13

You haven't.
You've hijacked that DBZ jokes thread (which actually started as something else) with some of the nastiest language seen on these forums.

Technically Dantom aren't looking for PG-13 anyway--some of the language permitted in such a movie is still unacceptable here. You ought to know, because you've used a lot of it. Clean up your mouth, and try to post in something resembling English--preferably with words that aren't four letters long.

Lummox JR
Apr 11 2002, 5:48 am
In response to Lummox JR
hmm red herring....


We werent talking about his actions. We were talking about how we disagreed with Fires post.
Apr 11 2002, 6:10 am
In response to Winbiko
Winbiko wrote:
hmm red herring....

We werent talking about his actions. We were talking about how we disagreed with Fires post.

No, he was talking about his disagreement. I was taking him to task for his apalling behavior on this and other thread.

I'm not sure how you think the term "red herring" applies here, because it would only be valid if I were deliberately confusing or misleading someone to distract them from something else. As for FireEmblem's post, I don't much care whether people agree with it or not; I have a few opinions of my own on the subject but didn't post a response because, well, it's a little bit incoherent and it's not coming from someone who has any authority to speak on the matter. So, I have no reason to try to obfuscate it, if that's what you meant by "red herring".
If you meant that I was merely straying off the subject, then your use of the phrase is wrong. That would be a digression.

Lummox JR
Apr 11 2002, 6:54 am
In response to Winbiko
I am happy to make icons for people for free *shrugs*

Are you happy to make as many icons as anybody wants for free, any time they ask? No, you're not? Then wouldn't it be safe to say that to maximize the chance of getting help, you should be willing to pay for good icons?

As far as using proper English goes, you may be willing to help someone who doesn't state their problem clearly, but if they use vague or ambiguous terminology, then how can you be sure you'll be able to help them? Fire Emblem isn't posting rules here... he's posting suggestions for people to help them position their posts for getting the most positive attention.

Most of what Fire Emblem says can be boiled down to this: posts that are easy to understand, posted under an appropriate heading, and/or offer a tangible reward for time-consuming original work are the ones most likely to receive a helpful answer. What part of that exactly do you disagree with?
Apr 11 2002, 7:32 am
Looks good enough to me. I hope you adhere yourself strictly to those rules, Fire. It would improve your face greatly in my eyes, and hopefully in others' as well.
Apr 11 2002, 7:45 am
The forum could definitely use more posts like this, and less like the ones you used as examples. And, you get bonus points for not stooping to respond to the people who disliked your post.

Bottom line, BYOND is about putting the tools and techniques of game creation into the hands of individuals. By helping others to help themselves, you're helping everyone.
Apr 11 2002, 10:08 am
In response to Lummox JR
I see red herring as....


You come home late and your mom says "YOUR LATE!!! What do you have to say for your self!?"

and you say " but betty (your sister) gets to come home late all them time and you dont care!"


They were not talking about betty. They were talking about how you were late.
Apr 11 2002, 10:19 am
In response to Lesbian Assassin
It sure seemed like gods gift to man.... It didnt start off Here is some suggestions if your not recieving help. He just started ordering. If someone was really a newbie he or she may have thought he was an admin.....


Sure I am willing to help as much as I can. People should be more understanding. Would I be willing to make icons when ever somebody wants them? I will try my best.

If it is not clear... I will ask. But first I will try my best to understand. Then I will help.

There should be more people on this forum willing to help nuubies. Its really odd. All the coding communities I have been involved in have been about shareing code (Open Source projects) Here it feels like a competition.... who can get the most byondDIMES. *shrugs*

Apr 11 2002, 10:22 am
In response to Winbiko
Winbiko wrote:
I see red herring as....

You come home late and your mom says "YOUR LATE!!! What do you have to say for your self!?"

and you say " but betty (your sister) gets to come home late all them time and you dont care!"

They were not talking about betty. They were talking about how you were late.

That's a change of subject, not a red herring. Totally different idea.

A red herring would be more like a rumor you might spread to prevent someone from getting close to the truth. If your mom started to wonder why you were so late all the time, for example, you could give her reasons to suspect Betty was up to something much worse. That's a red herring: A wild goose chase.

Lummox JR
Apr 11 2002, 10:26 am
In response to Winbiko
Winbiko wrote:
There should be more people on this forum willing to help nuubies. Its really odd. All the coding communities I have been involved in have been about shareing code (Open Source projects) Here it feels like a competition.... who can get the most byondDIMES. *shrugs*

How so? Despite the DBZer infestation, I've never seen a programming community more eager to help its newbies than this one. Perhaps you're not inclined to see it, or you didn't look at the right threads, but it's all there. I've never seen any ultracompetitive aspect to this community either, at least in terms of hoarding code--more often I see people compete to offer the best advice or code to a newbie who needs help.

Lummox JR
Apr 11 2002, 10:28 am
In response to Lummox JR
Offer byondDIMES for icons!!!!
Apr 11 2002, 10:35 am
In response to Lummox JR
How so? Despite the DBZer infestation, I've never seen a programming community more eager to help its newbies than this one. Perhaps you're not inclined to see it, or you didn't look at the right threads, but it's all there. I've never seen any ultracompetitive aspect to this community either, at least in terms of hoarding code--more often I see people compete to offer the best advice or code to a newbie who needs help.

Perhaps it's just that people who's been helping newbies for months on end are finally getting sick of answering the same questions over and over for people who refuse to read the documentation, refuse to state their problems clearly, and often as not insult the people helping them.

If you look back a few months on the forum, you'll find that people are generally a lot more helpful.
Apr 11 2002, 10:42 am
In response to Foomer
Foomer wrote:
Perhaps it's just that people who's been helping newbies for months on end are finally getting sick of answering the same questions over and over for people who refuse to read the documentation, refuse to state their problems clearly, and often as not insult the people helping them.

If you look back a few months on the forum, you'll find that people are generally a lot more helpful.

That could well be. Also people tend to be more or less accepting of such questions depending on how their life is going at the time, and some users phase in and out of the forums over the course of a few weeks or months.

I've seen the same sickness-of-questions on and off since I've been here; it varies in degree. A lot of it depends on who's asking, and how. Lately I've seen a lot more people posting questions in the most vague way they possibly could. I also can't count the number of times I've had to instruct a newbie in the "evil usr" thing this month, whereas before that it seemed to be rarer. And then of course there's the peanut gallery, who think they're helping by offering shoddy code in response to a question--they do a lot more harm than good, and they really frustrate people who have both the desire and the ability to help.

Lummox JR
Apr 11 2002, 11:11 am
In response to SuperAshing
SuperAshing wrote:
¿Te gusta BYOND?

*grins evilly*

I don't speak much spanish so I just said the first thing that came to mind, lol

por, me BYOND es muy abburido =(
Apr 11 2002, 1:23 pm
FireEmblem wrote:
[snip]
Do's
[snip]
3)Give good topic names:Example
Bad:HELP! GIVE ME FIXED CODE!
Good:May I be assisted with this runtime/syntax error?
[snip]

I like most of the message. However, while the good example is more polite, it does not offer much more information on the problem. Many things can be classified as runtime/syntax errors. Perhaps a mix of the error and what the code is designed for would help separate the title from the vague "Help Me PLZ" posts.

Also, to be honest, "help" and "may I be assisted" are generally not needed. Posting at all tends to imply that the person wants help. I know it's a minor thing, but the space could probably be better used defining the actual problem.

(I get the main point. I'm not trying to be petty, but a license for one more vague title does not appeal to me. Those who use it will think they are doing the right thing, but people will not be able to tell one post from another. Arguing about it with them will just bring out self-righteous anger.)
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