Well, it being based on Harvest Moon, I was planning on having very similal gameplay. Like how you buy seeds, plant them, let them grow, pluck them out of the ground, and throw them into your bin. But if I can think of a more interesting way of doing things, I'll be sure to try it. Thanks for your input.

While there's a lot to be said for originality, there's also a lot to be said for taking advantage of techniques that have been shown to work. (In fact, with enough effort you can probably describe just about any game as a combination of influences from games of the 1980's--whether or not the programmer actually ever played them.)

At the end of the day the first priority should be to write something that appeals to you enough to keep you working on it. If you come up with something really good, you'll end up giving it your own name and style as a matter of course. So get coding! :)

Well, it being based on Harvest Moon, I was planning on having very similal gameplay. Like how you buy seeds, plant them, let them grow, pluck them out of the ground, and throw them into your bin. But if I can think of a more interesting way of doing things, I'll be sure to try it. Thanks for your input.

My point here is that there are much broader gameplay themes in Harvest Moon to play off of. This rant probably belongs in Design Philosophy, but oh well, I don't think anyone's going to complain that the Babble forum is getting off-topic.

To illustrate my point better, let's look at Tetris and the many games it helped spawn. The main gameplay point in Tetris is that groups of blocks formed into various simple shapes continuously fall and must be positioned into solid horizontal rows by the player.

Now, suppose you wanted to make a Tetris-style game, in BYOND or in any other capable language. You COULD make a game of your own where groups of blocks formed into various simple shapes continuously fall and must be positioned into solid horizontal rows by the player... and then you've got an out-and-out clone. Even if you toss in extra features, people will recognize "Hey, it's a copy of Tetris with a few extra features."

However, there's a broader gameplay theme inherent in Tetris, and that's, basically, stuff falling that you have to position in a certain manner. I'm probably being unfair to several other classic puzzle games who have some similar attributes, but that's OK for now. There are many games which vary widely from Tetris's specific gameplay but which are still categorized as being Tetris-style games. Such games need not feature groups of blocks formed into various simple shapes; they may feature single blocks or constantly shaped blocks which vary by color, movement properties, or pattern. Maybe entire rows get added in, and players re-order individual elements. And then a player's goal need not be to fit the blocks into solid horizontal rows; perhaps they're trying to create clusters or rows of individual colors or styles of block, or trying to position the blocks in a certain pattern, or attempting to seperate the colors into groups. Maybe they even have multiple goals they can go for. Throw in all those possible variations, and you can end up with games which play quite differently than Tetris but which are still recognized and labeled as being Tetris-style.



Now, back to Harvest Moon. Harvest Moon is a MUCH more complex game than Tetris and it features many side goals, but the core gameplay consists of planting seeds, watering them for a while, then picking the fully grown fruits or vegetables and putting them in a bin. Now, I'm not saying that you couldn't make an enjoyable game just mimicking this gameplay exactly. However, there are some inherent problems to this approach, such as the difficulty in adapting the gameplay to multiplayer, possible copyright issues (mostly only if you call it "Harvest Moon" or a variation thereof), and the fact that your game will incur longwinded rants on originality. But Harvest Moon has broader underlying gameplay themes, which I'm having a very very hard time trying to think of a way to articulate, which almost makes this entire rant a moot point (heck, it wasn't that important in the first place). I suppose the work-driven gameplay theme is about the best explanation I could give as what I see as the underlying Harvest Moon gameplay theme. Players are attempting to produce something by following a specific set of arbitrary tasks. You could make a game where players are producing something completely different, following a set of tasks bearing no resemblance to "plant seed, water, pick up, put in bin." Few people would look at the game and immediately yell "OMG! That's exactly like Harvest Moon!", so if for some reason you're looking for this reaction, this isn't the approach for you. On the other hand, anyone* who plays it long enough to catch on to the work cycle would sit and think to themselves "Hmm, this game is kinda like Harvest Moon." Or you could go even more obscure with the idea, to the point where hardly anyone would ever make the connection unless you explained it. The bottom line is, make the sort of game you want to make... but realize that it's entirely possible to make a very strongly Harvest Moon style game without replicating any of the exact gameplay.

*Yes, I mean anyone. Even people who otherwise could never make an equally subtle connection between two ideas, and people who have never played or heard of Harvest Moon.

On 7/7/01 9:18 am Leftley wrote:

My point here is that there are much broader gameplay themes in Harvest Moon to play off of. This rant probably belongs in Design Philosophy, but oh well, I don't think anyone's going to complain that the Babble forum is getting off-topic.

To illustrate my point better, let's look at Tetris and the many games it helped spawn. The main gameplay point in Tetris is that groups of blocks formed into various simple shapes continuously fall and must be positioned into solid horizontal rows by the player.

Now, suppose you wanted to make a Tetris-style game, in BYOND or in any other capable language. You COULD make a game of your own where groups of blocks formed into various simple shapes continuously fall and must be positioned into solid horizontal rows by the player... and then you've got an out-and-out clone. Even if you toss in extra features, people will recognize "Hey, it's a copy of Tetris with a few extra features."

However, there's a broader gameplay theme inherent in Tetris, and that's, basically, stuff falling that you have to position in a certain manner. I'm probably being unfair to several other classic puzzle games who have some similar attributes, but that's OK for now. There are many games which vary widely from Tetris's specific gameplay but which are still categorized as being Tetris-style games. Such games need not feature groups of blocks formed into various simple shapes; they may feature single blocks or constantly shaped blocks which vary by color, movement properties, or pattern. Maybe entire rows get added in, and players re-order individual elements. And then a player's goal need not be to fit the blocks into solid horizontal rows; perhaps they're trying to create clusters or rows of individual colors or styles of block, or trying to position the blocks in a certain pattern, or attempting to seperate the colors into groups. Maybe they even have multiple goals they can go for. Throw in all those possible variations, and you can end up with games which play quite differently than Tetris but which are still recognized and labeled as being Tetris-style.



Now, back to Harvest Moon. Harvest Moon is a MUCH more complex game than Tetris and it features many side goals, but the core gameplay consists of planting seeds, watering them for a while, then picking the fully grown fruits or vegetables and putting them in a bin. Now, I'm not saying that you couldn't make an enjoyable game just mimicking this gameplay exactly. However, there are some inherent problems to this approach, such as the difficulty in adapting the gameplay to multiplayer, possible copyright issues (mostly only if you call it "Harvest Moon" or a variation thereof), and the fact that your game will incur longwinded rants on originality. But Harvest Moon has broader underlying gameplay themes, which I'm having a very very hard time trying to think of a way to articulate, which almost makes this entire rant a moot point (heck, it wasn't that important in the first place). I suppose the work-driven gameplay theme is about the best explanation I could give as what I see as the underlying Harvest Moon gameplay theme. Players are attempting to produce something by following a specific set of arbitrary tasks. You could make a game where players are producing something completely different, following a set of tasks bearing no resemblance to "plant seed, water, pick up, put in bin." Few people would look at the game and immediately yell "OMG! That's exactly like Harvest Moon!", so if for some reason you're looking for this reaction, this isn't the approach for you. On the other hand, anyone* who plays it long enough to catch on to the work cycle would sit and think to themselves "Hmm, this game is kinda like Harvest Moon." Or you could go even more obscure with the idea, to the point where hardly anyone would ever make the connection unless you explained it. The bottom line is, make the sort of game you want to make... but realize that it's entirely possible to make a very strongly Harvest Moon style game without replicating any of the exact gameplay.

Actually, I was somewhat going for the near immediate "OMG! That's exactly like Harvest Moon!" reaction. To explain myself better, I'll put it like this. I originally got the idea of making a game based on Harvest Moon from my friend, War. War is a Harvest Moon fanatic, and he thought a BYOND version would be sweet. So if he were to play my game, I would want him to see quite a few similarities between the two games, especially in the gameplay department.

I could go on and on, but I don't see a reason to. I hope that got my point through.

Once again, thanks for your input.

On 7/7/01 12:18 pm Cinnom wrote:

On 7/7/01 3:00 am Spuzzum wrote:

Caffeine makes my posting irritable and grouchy.

And sugar makes my posting hysterical.


A nice question to ask would be if "posting" is used as a noun or a verb in this case, which adjusts the descriptive words into adjectives or adverbs respectively.

I love ambiguity. I think I should make an entire game that only accepts implicit commands. ;-)

Posting would be a verb. The action of making a post. But I didn't say anything about the posting, I said "posts". "posts" would be a noun here. "Rotten" and "scrumptious" would be attributes of the "post".
I'll leave the sugar and caffeine part to you. ;)

In this case "posting" is a gerund, a verb that acts as a noun. Aren't we all glad DM isn't like English? :)

On 7/7/01 7:07 pm Foomer wrote:

Which is why naming the game "Harvest Moon" in the first place was, well, stupid. Had you named it "Pleasant Dwellings" or some equially stupid name, there's probably a good portion of the Byond population that would have thought you original.

Uhh, Foomer, you're talking ot the wrong person. I had never intended to name it Harvest Moon, you're thinking of Seto-Strife.

On 7/8/01 12:15 am Cinnom wrote:

On 7/7/01 5:35 pm Shadowdarke wrote:

In this case "posting" is a gerund, a verb that acts as a noun. Aren't we all glad DM isn't like English? :)

Ahh, thats the word I was looking for. I simply couldn't think of it. Gerund.

The ambiguity still works the same way. You can still interpret it as either a noun or a verb. =)

I'm anxiously awaiting your Code Problem post:

"How do I make a verb so that u must buy a pet, you don't start with a house u must buy one or donate money 2 me, if you buy a dog u can set it to hunt and it will hunt down a fox or wolf and if you bought a shot gun you can shoot the animalbecause they eat your live stock, you start with 150 stamina and if you use a item u lose some stamina and to raise your max stamina keep on using a item or find a magical item in the woods and it will raise it by 50, every 2 weeks or so there are gonna be "festivals" or partys for each god, there are temples were u can pray to a certain god, u can decorate your house with flowers and u can chage there colors bye usiing the rgb , there will be quests were you must find the so and so and if you find it you get a gift, a specail pioson plant thet if you eat it ur stam goes to 5/5 and you must find the magical green blob and eat it and then ur stamina becomes 200/200?

plz ansr me."

On 7/8/01 2:27 pm Spuzzum wrote:

On 7/8/01 2:18 pm Seto-Strife wrote:

On 7/6/01 6:45 pm LexyBitch wrote:

...couldn't you think of anything better to call your Harvest Moon-style game than "Harvest Moon"? When you first mentioned in on the forum, I wanted to applaud your originality and initiative in making a new game inspired by a fairly unique and interesting example of a game in a very rare genre... but you're not even attempting originality.

Doesn't anyone understand the difference between taking something you like as inspiration, and simply ripping it off?

... wow u guys started a 20 sum post raggin on my game...

We weren't ragging on it, we were discussing the implications. Calling a game "Harvest Moon" is just like calling a game "DBZ".

(Hint, hint.)

and i had no idea it was here. ok first off my game name WON'T be Harvest moon... my bro started it out and named it that...

That's good.

But where's the similarities? As far as I can tell from the description of Harvest Moon, yours is nothing like it, not even based from it. =)

i said its a harvest moon style game, the sims are:
u plant veg and fruits
u buy and sell live stock
have a house
make fun of haroki
farm
get a pet(s)
sell stuff
buy stuff
same icons sorta
a kick ass tavern were u can get loaded
merages(player and player) (no gays or les. (sry lexy..)) might add in npc weddings)

On 7/8/01 2:26 pm LexyBitch wrote:

I'm anxiously awaiting your Code Problem post:

"How do I make a verb so that u must buy a pet, you don't start with a house u must buy one or donate money 2 me, if you buy a dog u can set it to hunt and it will hunt down a fox or wolf and if you bought a shot gun you can shoot the animalbecause they eat your live stock, you start with 150 stamina and if you use a item u lose some stamina and to raise your max stamina keep on using a item or find a magical item in the woods and it will raise it by 50, every 2 weeks or so there are gonna be "festivals" or partys for each god, there are temples were u can pray to a certain god, u can decorate your house with flowers and u can chage there colors bye usiing the rgb , there will be quests were you must find the so and so and if you find it you get a gift, a specail pioson plant thet if you eat it ur stam goes to 5/5 and you must find the magical green blob and eat it and then ur stamina becomes 200/200?

jeeze u act like i have no idea how to code... i know how sry if i need a little help... jeeze

plz ansr me."

u sure did get that bitch part right