Maggeh hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyone's arguing against it as the only way out in the extremely rare, specific (and usually to be avoided) situations, but now people are throwing around things like like 'technique', 'fundamental', and 'the foundation of all pixel art techniques' (My personal favorite. Wow!), as if it's an effective solution for every situation (Like step by step instructions on how to destroy your favorite Pokemon sprites! Easy as 1-2-3!). It was funny at first but now it's a little disturbing (And still a little funny). In the end, you do what you want if it makes you happy of course. It's just staggering how such a bad habit is being encouraged as something to be practiced. Serious blind leading the blind scenario. You have to remember that while Pixel Art is a form of art as a whole, it is a very stingy, precise, and unique form of it that can't be treated so lazily if you expect to get good results.
In short: If it makes you happy, by all means. Just don't expect to not take any shit from people who actually know what they're doing and take care in their work.
Now as for the actual topic, I won't get into much critique since this is the Showroom. It's a good start I think. If big pieces like this become a little overwhelming for you after getting that far, it's not a bad idea to shelf it for a little while and come back to it or just work on it for a few minutes at a time every now and then until it's done. Trying to knock it all out in one sitting is just going to burn you out.
Why you messing with me Sarg huh! huh! So what you gone say.. THAT RIGHT, THE EXACT SAME ISH THAT THIS SERGEANT SAID!!!! LOL
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Its seem I was wrong. The term "Pillow Shade" means that the Light soure seems to be between you and the piture. I was under the a impression that it was shading from dark to light in layers. That being said, it doesnt look pillow shaded to me.......
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 ??? As Amon said, pillowing is a cheap way to get out of detailing a sprite. It doesn't look as nice, and it lacks a sense of depth. Only in rare occasions as Maggeh said would a light source call for pillow shading. Again, to the topic. I agree with Amon on taking bigger projects in small steps. Also try planning out the light source with some simple colors before you make too many details (Such as textures) if you are. Doing both at once can cause some issues. Overall, this has a lot of potential. :) | |
Getting pretty ridiculous that not many of you artists understand the concept of when pillow-shading is the only logical way of shading...
 That's not even taking PERSPECTIVE into consideration. | |
See what Maximus just did? He just showed you what professional artist will flat out shove in your face first day of class. I decided not to say anything before, but Maximus has. Pixel art may be a digital art, but all digital art stems from traditional art. Though, what is called pillow shading in pixel art, isn't called that in traditional art. We call it something else. But it's apart of lighting. It was shown to use through lighting a statue for an example. The Pillow shading is the Pixel art equivalent of that lighting.
You guys look down on pillow shading, but it's the people that use it wrong you should be looking down on. You can't use it all the time, because the lighting doesn't match, ALL THE TIME. Pillow Shading can look GOOD, when used right. You guys are being some pretty ignorant "artists" right now... But Maximus... o_o, we were past that already lol! So It's time to really leave all that alone lol. | |
Maximus_Alex2003 wrote:
Getting pretty ridiculous that not many of you artists understand the concept of when pillow-shading is the only logical way of shading.. Obviously this is referring to me, but i even said myself that sometimes pillow shading is called for, like Maggeh stated earlier. I would appreciate if you read my whole post. ;) On to the actual topic: Does the artist still plan to finish this? If so, awesome. :D | |
Yes, that would be the "rare, specific, boring" perspective/light source situation we've already mentioned that you want to avoid because it forces you to pillow shade. But as I understand it, you and others taking this ONE perspective and ONE basic geometric shape into account and talking as if it's ok to repeat this process in every situation. In your scenario here, yes, unfortunately pillow shading is your only way out. Our point is you can't treat everything like that, as people have suggested GTD do for this piece, and that you don't want to put yourself in a situation where pillow shading is your only way out.
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Amon...of all people you missed the whole essence of that conversation. It's been said by a couple of people, including me. You're treating the pillow shading subject as if it's on-topic lol. No, the whole thing was an off-topic subject, that we basically THOUGHT we killed for the last time...until you posted hahaha.
It was already established that this piece didn't need pillow shading. The only reason pillow shading was being talked bout, was because people were bad mouthing it, lol. It was off topic already though. We weren't talking about the piece anymore, but on pillow shading itself, and why people should get "pillow shading is bad" out of their minds. Pillow Shading doesn't have a rare situation for it to be used, it's actually a normal situation. Just like any other shading, it can only be used with the proper perspective and lighting. As I said before, it's not the technique that's lazy, it's the people that use it wrong that are lazy. They use it the wrong way, and that's how it gets such a bad reputation. No shading will work with all lighting and perspectives. That's lazy as well. No one thinks about these things, lol. I'm actually learning this stuff from pros in the field. Traditional art and digital is not very different at all. It's only the way you create it that differs. SO as far as technique wise, it's all the same. Anywaaaaay, yeah this was all an off-topic deal bro lol. Nothing to even deal with the subject. AmonR...I thought you would know that o_o... "and that you don't want to put yourself in a situation where pillow shading is your only way out." ...This was actually a smart fragment though bro. However, it can only be directed to people who don't know how to use perspective and lighting well in their pixel art. People that are actually going for that lighting, DO want to be in that situation. Because that's the lighting they chose to use. If they use it right, then it won't look ugly. Again...let me repeat this...it's the PEOPLE that use pillow shading the WRONG WAY, that should be scorned. Not the shading ITSELF. :).... Though the beginning point of this reply was to point out that this was off-topic and shouldn't be treated as if it was on-topic lol. If you guys still don't understand, then...whew, you need to go to art class, lol. | |
ShadowiceTeam wrote:
Amon...of all people you missed the whole essence of that conversation. It's been said by a couple of people, including me. You're treating the pillow shading subject as if it's on-topic lol. No, the whole thing was an off-topic subject, that we basically THOUGHT we killed for the last time...until you posted hahaha. I love the way you explain things xD!=) | |
I like how any time you don't want to further a debate it's off-topic.
If it's pertaining the art in this topic, it is ontopic, sorry bro :/ | |
Lol, well then, it is on topic...art wise. But you know how BYOND works. :P. It's off the topic of the original poster lol.
I should have said "It's no longer related to this topic's intentional purpose" haha. Buut, when have I said it's off topic when I no longer want to further a debate 0_o? I haven't done that at all, lol. I just straight up say, it's over haha. This isn't eve a debate, or argument. It's just people posting stuff to prove a fact wrong o_o...which is sooo hard to do lol. It's friggin basic too! lmao. But hey bro, what I posted is actually all that needs to be said about it anymore. I'm not posting to prove wrong either. Just telling it...how it is. I believe she wants us to be focusing on her picture rather than something "unrelated" lol... hold up bro..actually...it is off-topic. This topic wasn't even focused on that lol. It's solely on her picture bro hahahahaha. So...yeah bro it's off-topic. If the topic was for talking about art in general, then chea, it would be on-topic. (Just as this is off topic haha, let's get back to Shenron 2 :D!) | |
I feel like you ignored/misunderstood 40% of what I said, and 90% of what "shading" means, which isn't surprising at this point. I am/was well aware it was off topic. This entire thread is a massive train wreck lol.
That said, I think we got all we can out of it. Hope you keep at it GTD, and to each his own. | |
Congrats! You managed to find one of the few examples where pillow shading might work that I mentioned in my post that everyone but Amon seemingly ignored, a perfectly symmetrical object with the light source in a such a perfect and unnatural location! It's also incredibly dull, and boring to look at.
People like you are starting to get ridiculous since you're seemingly completely ignoring why anyone in this thread is saying pillow shading was bad. Maybe if you refer to the original post where GTD73191 posted her Dragon, and then where Etsukurenay suggest she pillow shade parts of the dragon -- completely ignoring the shape and location of the light source would make it impossible for pillow shading to be used, and have it look any sort of good. Naturally people came to tell GTD73191 not to do that, because it would look like crap, and you guys actually started defending pillow shading completely missing the point of crying fowl at the idea of pillow shading. Though I guess that doesn't matter, you need to continually try to argue against something people weren't even trying to argue against. And it's great because instead of trying to help GTD73191 improve her art, you decided to argue against something for the sake of arguing. I hope you're happy contributing to destroying someone's thread. @Shadowiceteam Amon...of all people you missed the whole essence of that conversation. It's been said by a couple of people, including me. You're treating the pillow shading subject as if it's on-topic lol. No, the whole thing was an off-topic subject, that we basically THOUGHT we killed for the last time...until you posted hahaha. It was on-topic because someone foolishly suggested pillow shading for this particular piece, and people came to argue against it. Welcome to critiquing, where people are suppose to argue about what they feel will make something look better. It went off topic when people came to the defense of pillow shading without any concern for the original piece just for the sake of pillow shading. You guys seriously need to learn how to critique -- and no, editing someone's work and going "here I fix'd it for you" is not critiquing. As I said before, it's not the technique that's lazy, it's the people that use it wrong that are lazy. They use it the wrong way, and that's how it gets such a bad reputation. No shading will work with all lighting and perspectives. That's lazy as well. No one thinks about these things, lol. I'm actually learning this stuff from pros in the field. Traditional art and digital is not very different at all. It's only the way you create it that differs. SO as far as technique wise, it's all the same. But pillow shading IS the lazy way out. It's much much easier and simpler in regards to pixel art to pillow shade than to actually set up a light source, and pillow shading often looks like crap compared to setting up a normal light source. I don't think guys understand what we're arguing against, and your post seems to be that you would otherwise agree with us if it weren't for the fact that you're arguing against us for the sake of argument. Pillow shading is not something you want to suggest to people who are not experienced with pixel art. On the matter of using it real life, you will rarely ever actually have to shade something with such a light source. Teachers also will teach you not to set a light source up in such a way because it's dull, doesn't create any sort of interesting shadows, and is highly unnatural (it really is, just look around and try to find something that's "pillow shaded", you wont), and it sort of goes out the window when you start taking into account ambient lighting and the like. As for the topic at hand, GTD73191 if you like, you can make a new topic where people will hopefully critique your dragon, and not argue the uses of pillow shading. :) | |
My argument http://a.imageshack.us/img442/7154/mbstory300003.png
Mathias work from wayofthepixel