Ability to close server from the hub

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ID:134046
 
Aug 6 2007, 4:30 am
Ok the reason I request this is because its really annoying when some idiot host pagerbans you from YOUR OWN GAME and you cant do anything about it. So thats why hub owners should be able to go to the hub and see ALL servers, even invisible ones, and be able to close them out from there, or perhaps even disallow servers from the IP/key to be hosted again.
Aug 6 2007, 4:31 am
I concur!
Aug 6 2007, 4:39 am
I concur as well.
Aug 6 2007, 5:03 am
In response to Drakenking
Don't quote me on this, but I believe the BYOND Staff had a discussion about "Should the host have more power than the Owner?".

Due to the fact that DreamDaemon allows you to ban the owner and creator of the hub, I believe the staff came to the conclusion that the one hosting should have "absolute" power.

That's why I don't believe something like this would go through.
Aug 6 2007, 5:11 am
In response to Flame Sage
Flame sagas that dumb let say if you have a game. And someone host for you and things break out he wanna overtake the game. Your owner and you cant do nothing...
Aug 6 2007, 5:13 am
In response to Jack69
Why not make yourself immune to GM powers in game? or add a shutdown verb.
Aug 6 2007, 5:20 am
I do not concur. It is up to the developer to trust their host.
You can already set a hub password so the host can no longer broadcast their game to it. This will hide the server from most players.

The issue with the host hosting could've been prevented had you been more careful with selecting your host. If you're that paranoid, you could always implement a checking system for the host, where you authenticate your own key against the hosts'.

Since you guys seem so obsessed with wanting this system, I've taken the liberty of programming it for you.

#define HUBKEY "<secret>"
#define HUBURL "http://datatheandroid.com/~androiddata/hostkey/ckey/game"

proc
    hubkey()
        var/x=world.Export(HUBURL)
        if(x&&x["CONTENT"])
            if(HUBKEY==trim( file2text(x["CONTENT"]) ) )
                world.log<<"Host key verified. This is a valid server."
                return
        world.log<<"This world may not be hosted because it's hub key does not match the one on file or because it cannot reach the url [HUBURL]."
        del world
    trim(t,method=2)
        .=t
        if(!method||method==2)
            for(var/i=1 to length(t)+1)
                if( text2ascii(t,i) <= 32) .=copytext(t,i+1)
                else break

            t=.

        if(method==1||method==2)
            for(var/i=length(t),i>=1,i--)
                if( text2ascii(t,i) <= 32) .=copytext(t,1,i)
                else break


You would need to add your game via this script. Once completed, all you need to do is adjust the HUBKEY and HUBURL definitions to their proper values.

You need to set HUBKEY to the key you chose on my script. The HUBURL only needs two minor modifications: "ckey" has to be replaced with your BYOND key in canonical form ("Jack69" -> "jack69") and "game" has to be replaced with the game in canoncial form ("Space Station 13" -> "spacestation13").

Once your host decides to ban you, all you need to do is goto my script and change the key of the game to another key.

Note: Like every client-side system, the host can ultimately bypass this alltoghether by changing their "hosts" configuration to reroute the domain "datatheandroid.com" to their local computer. They could then place a file which has the new key in it (the new key is publically available) and then they'd be able to bypass this system alltoghether.

The motto is: screen your hosts before readily accepting them. And if all else fails: do it yourself. And if that fails: get a professional host to do it, like digitalBYOND or HyperBYOND.

-- Data
Aug 6 2007, 5:22 am
In response to Miran94
Miran94 wrote:
Why not make yourself immune to GM powers in game? or add a shutdown verb.

Because you can't shield yourself from the host? The host has full ban control, wether you like it or not. If the host doesn't make use of the new DreamDaemon features, s/he'll just put up a firewall rule to block your IP.

The fact is, the host has absolute power wether you like it or not. BYOND Staff could change this by i.e. preventing hosting of games with invalid hub_passwords but this, like my example above, can be bypassed if the host is determined enough.

-- Data
Aug 6 2007, 5:47 am
In response to Jack69
Jack69 wrote:
Flame sagas that dumb let say if you have a game. And someone host for you and things break out he wanna overtake the game. Your owner and you cant do nothing...

Yea, he can just leave you banned, change ALL the rules (for instance if it were a roleplaying game he could strip it of roleplaying).. And you cant do ANYTHING!!! It would suck hard.
Aug 6 2007, 5:48 am
In response to Miran94
Miran94 wrote:
Why not make yourself immune to GM powers in game? or add a shutdown verb.

That doesnt protect against pagerbans.
Aug 6 2007, 5:53 am
In response to Android Data
Android Data wrote:
Miran94 wrote:
Why not make yourself immune to GM powers in game? or add a shutdown verb.

Because you can't shield yourself from the host? The host has full ban control, wether you like it or not. If the host doesn't make use of the new DreamDaemon features, s/he'll just put up a firewall rule to block your IP.

The fact is, the host has absolute power wether you like it or not. BYOND Staff could change this by i.e. preventing hosting of games with invalid hub_passwords but this, like my example above, can be bypassed if the host is determined enough.

-- Data

YEA! Good idea! Add a checkbox under the place on the hub where you add your hub_password, and if checked it will disallow hosting of games with invalide passwords! GOOD IDEA!!
Aug 6 2007, 5:55 am
In response to Dragonn
Christ, you TRIPLE posted. You can already set the hub_password from the hub itself, as long as it's the same hub_password in the game, it'll show. If not, it won't show.
Aug 6 2007, 7:28 am
In response to Dragonn
Dragonn wrote:
GOOD IDEA!!

No, it's not a good idea for BYOND Staff to implement this, as it's only security by obscurity. You think you're safe, but that password won't stop the host.

All the host has to do is block the BYOND Hub from sending the signals. Using a packet tracking tool(sp), the host could detect which packets were sent to allow the game to host.
The host could use this after s/he bans the host to host anyway.

Plus, I think it interferes with an invisible rule "thou shalt not interfere directly with thein users pc".

-- Data
Aug 6 2007, 1:47 pm
In response to Android Data
Android Data wrote:
Plus, I think it interferes with an invisible rule "thou shalt not interfere directly with thein users pc".

The geek in me has to correct that to say "Thou shalt not interfere directly with thy users' PCs".

But yes, ultimately, the whole motivation for having more powerful host controls in 4.0 is the fact that developers should not have the ability to harm another user's computer -- remotely shutting down a program they are running, even if that program is unlicensed to them, could be construed as a wrongful act of vandalism. You could even talk to a lawyer about it. ;-)

The best way to handle a situation where a host is wrongfully hosting an original creation of yours is to litigate -- hire a lawyer, who will request available information on the user from BYOND so the user's identity can be found via their ISP, and sue their ass. Rips, of course, do not apply as original creations, and the staff would laugh at you and your lawyer.
Aug 6 2007, 2:22 pm
In response to Jtgibson
Jtgibson wrote:
hire a lawyer, who will request available information on the user from BYOND so the user's identity can be found via their ISP, and sue their ass

Does anybody here have the ability to hire a lawyer so they can sue someone? Please raise your hands.

...

Okay, there's a few of you there.

Another question: who here is over 18?

...

Ah. A little bit more than before, aye.

<small>Note: Just making a point about the average developers' age & capability of suing. I agree with the stance of no-harming-computer, as I am frequently harmed by other applications, such as the deadly combination of Browser + DivX + rand(1,10) = Browser vanishes.</small>

-- Data
Aug 6 2007, 4:40 pm
Why not just add something in Hub that has a list of GMs and admins that the hub creator created and if they [the host] try to ban a GM or admin, it wouldn't allow them[the host].
Aug 6 2007, 4:44 pm
In response to DadGun
DadGun wrote:
Why not just add something in Hub that has a list of GMs and admins that the hub creator created and if they [the host] try to ban a GM or admin, it wouldn't allow them[the host].

Because you can't prevent the host from banning someone.

-- Data
Aug 6 2007, 4:55 pm
In response to Android Data
Android Data wrote:
DadGun wrote:
Why not just add something in Hub that has a list of GMs and admins that the hub creator created and if they [the host] try to ban a GM or admin, it wouldn't allow them[the host].

Because you can't prevent the host from banning someone.

-- Data

O.o
When the hub creator makes a hub for a game, the hub will get a list, which the hub creator will add the staff, admins, GMs, etc. to the list and if the host wants to ban them, it gives the host a message saying they cannot ban him/her.
It would something that could be added to BYOND site when 4.0 comes out.
Aug 6 2007, 5:13 pm
In response to DadGun
His point is that there will always be a way for the host to ban them. Even if they have to go as far as blocking that person's IP from their computer. There's nothing you can do other than stop them from hosting your game on your hub. If you're really creative, maybe even at all.
Aug 7 2007, 10:18 am
In response to DarkCampainger
DarkCampainger wrote:
His point is that there will always be a way for the host to ban them. Even if they have to go as far as blocking that person's IP from their computer. There's nothing you can do other than stop them from hosting your game on your hub. If you're really creative, maybe even at all.

TRUE. But, the owner needs to also be able to shut down the server from the hub IF the host is indeed abusive enough to pagerban them and try to take over the game.
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